My child doesn't listen... anyone else??
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| Thu, 07-05-2007 - 12:58pm |
I've posted a few times, but mostly just hang out. We had a tough day yesterday and I could use your insight. My 4 1/2 year old has not been diagnesed with anything yet, but we are going through the process now. He has a speech delay and we have always had trouble getting him to understand what he's being asked to do. Its almost like instructions go in one ear and out the other. We live on the Puget Sound and Grayson has become very interested in going down to the beach to play with our dog. He has been told repeatedly that he is not allowed to go to the beach without telling us first (and gets time-out, etc... if he disobeys). Yesterday we had a really bad day! First, he told my husband he was going next door to my in-laws house to play. Apparently he walked in the house said hi to Nana and then went down to the beach. About 30 minutes later my husband decided to check on him next door. Grayson wasn't there, dh found his underwear along side of the house and after several minutes of panic found my son on the beach covered in mud with only his t-shirt on. We were horrified and scared!!! I don't know why he was undressed and we checked to see that nothing horrible had happened to him... thankfully he was okay. After a quick shower, he was told that he was in big trouble and had to stay inside the house. Not 10-minutes later I was doing something in the bathroom, came out and my son was gone again. He went next door again without asking. I was furious. Do your kids have days when they just don't listen and other days when they seem to understand what & why things are the way they are? For the past couple of days he hasn't cared if he got in trouble or not. Usually he gets very upset so I'd noticed a change in his attitude. Its almost like he doesn't care or understand that there are consequences to his actions. He just can't be trusted right now. I am so frightened for his safety.
Help!!!
Layna

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Hi Layna
My almost 4 yr old with PDD also has a speech delay along with the other issues that go with PDD. I have days were I forget he has autism then there are days that it so in your face over the topic with the autism. It takes my son longer to process things and he sometimes is just checked out. Here is is 4 and still not potty trained. That's my BIGGEST issue at the moment.
I swear he has ADD too and that will be getting checked out soon. My son doesn't bolt. There are other women who DO have this problem with their children.
Glad you found this board, hope you stay awhile.
The informations is grand...............
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Hi Layna~
As the parent of an almost 7 year old little girl who does these EXACT types of things, I can tell you that, in our experience, it's related to the speech/language delays. Or, more specifically, expressive and receptive language delays. Our daughter isn't capable of being "intentionally naughty" because she simply isn't capable of understanding complex instructions or consequences. Telling her that she's in "big trouble", putting her in "time-out", etc. does not work.
You said your son is not yet diagnosed, but that you are going through the process. Good for you! Should you find out that he is "on the spectrum", you will probably at some point read in a book or learn from BTDT moms that this type of behavior is common for kids with ASD...and it's probably the most frustating thing many of us face.
To put it simply, spectrum kids-especially those that are more affected by the disorder- often aren't capable of using reasoning skills. And in some situations, such as with my daughter, she is completely lacking any reasoning skills. Spectrum kids often don't understand danger. Also, because of their deep sensory needs they can seek fulfillment of those needs without concern for any "rules".
Now, I'm not saying this is what's going on with your son, but as an example-
Assume that his love of the beach is because the sound of the waves is calming to him. Perhaps the feel of the sand under his feet makes him feel "grounded"- if this were the case, then it's quite possible that his desire to get that type of sensory input could be so strong that he's not capable of following rules...regardless of what the consequences may be.
I use this example because we have a similar problem with our daughter. Her need to swing is so intense that, no matter how many time she's been told she can't go outside without an adult, she is constantly trying to run across the street to use the neighbors swing. It's taken us the better part of 2 years to teach her to come and ask us for help when she "needs" to swing...and even then, she can't do it consistently.
Take it for what it's worth, but hopefully I've provided you with some insight into what might be going on with your son.
Amy
Thank you for your reply! May I ask what kind of discipline or instruction have you given your daughter when she went to swing without permission? It is so hard to know how to react. Time outs don't work... he simply won't stay and doesn't seem to connect the discipline with the behaviour that's being corrected. We've also taken favorite toys away and have swatted his behind on occasion (I'm not proud of corporal punishment at all). Most of our attempts at discipline are like grasping at straws. Nothing seems to work very well.
Thank you for your insight on his possible need to be at the beach. It will certainly keep this in mind in the future.
Take care,
layna
Layna,
Welcome out of lurkdom.
I think Amy had some great insights for you.
visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
Layna,
Hi.
Hiya Layna!
Thanks for posting this, it's a great thread.
Don't feel bad about the "corporal punishment"- we've tried it too, but like everything else, it didn't work. I'll do my best to explain what & how we try to handle things now, but it's a bit complicated to "type". LOL
To be honest, since finding out about her diagnosis, we've essentially stopped using any "formal" means of disciple. What has worked for us is a modified version of 1-2-3 Magic that I started using before I even knew there was such a book, and "catching her in the act" which, and I know this sounds awful, is essentially the theory of what you'd do with a new puppy. By catching them in the act of pooping on the floor, you can retrain them to do what's right-versus screaming at the dog after 2 hours later, when they're so far removed from the "crime" that they're not capable of connecting the punishment to the offensive act. Does that make any sense?
The hard part of this method is that you have to be glued to their side, and then the minute they do something they shouldn't do, you stop them- explain what they're doing wrong as simply as possible using words you know they can comprehend (i.e. "no hitting" vs. "it's not polite to hit our friends")- and redirect them. If they start to do the same action again, you give them to a count of three-or a countdown from 3 to 1 (slow enough that it's registering in their brain) and then if you get to three and haven't changed their actions, you redirect them again-or if there's something you can take away that's tangible (for us it's her Dr. Seuss books) then you do that. Over time, in theory, they'll start to redirect themselves before you get to "three" (or "one" if you count backwards). Some people, when using this method will reward the child with something (like one M&M) if they make the right choice. Since our daughter refuses to eat candy, that's never worked for us...so we just use lots of praise. "Thank you, Claire!" "Good Choice!"
In a situation like yours with the beach, where you son said he was going to grandmas and then "walked out the back door" this method obviously wouldn't work. But had your husband been with him when he walked over to grandmas and then out the back door, he could've used it as an opportunity to reinforce the right decision. This ends up being another huge hurdle...getting anybody who watches him (spouses, grandparents, babysitters) to use the same method. Everybody has to be on the same page for it be effective, and everybody has to be willing to communicate constantly.
I also have to echo what Paula said about the safety concerns. We've had to install sirens and special locks on our door. No, it's not something anybody wants to do, but when it comes to keeping our kids safe- especially when they're older and physically more capable of being independent- it's a challenge and sometimes we have to do what we don't want to do.
Hope this helps-
Amy
Edited 7/5/2007 9:44 pm ET by manec93
All of these have been excellent points and suggestions. I would like to add something that might help your child if he is so drawn to the sand and water of the ocean.
I know they have play tables out there that you can put on a back porch that holds sand and water to play with. How about one of those for his sensory needs? It might not be perfect, but will help a little bit with directing him to what he needs and keep it safe.
I will always remember my sister who's a preschool teacher telling me that sand and water naturally calms a child down. NT and all. Try it, it might help.
Lainie
I can't really add anything safety-wise or help wise to what's already been said, but I wanted to add my family's perspective in case it was helpful. What I've noticed with my kids (8 & 12yo) is that it's not always an "I've gotta do this activity" situation so much as my kids dismissing my instructions because they don't recognize that the instructions or information applies to them. If they don't like the instructions, they somehow believe it doesn't apply to them. They're not being defiant, they just honestly don't recognize that it applies to them if it's instructions they don't like. My kids have been stunned many times to receive consequences for behavior they didn't realize was wrong even though they could parrot back every instruction I gave them. They just didn't know that THEY were supposed to do what I said.
I'm getting better at getting my kids' attention, stating the rules, having the kids parrot the info back to me, and then asking them whether they understand that this applies to them, too. It's amazing to me how many times they're surprised at the last step! I have to be very thorough about explaining things like "even if your sibling is permitted to do it, you're still not allowed," or "even if you think you can do it quickly, you may not try," etc. If I don't spell out the "what-if" scenarios, they sometimes get stumped and do an inappropriate thing anyway since I wasn't clear enough (in their minds) in my instructions.
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