Nathan's dr. visit. Food issues still.

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-13-2006
Nathan's dr. visit. Food issues still.
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Tue, 06-26-2007 - 3:23pm

Okay, so this technically has nothing to do with spectrum issues, since it's about my nt child, Nathan.

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iVillage Member
Registered: 05-28-2004
Tue, 06-26-2007 - 5:08pm

"Some traditions are meant to be broken."

Yes, yes, yes!

APOV on Autism
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-21-2006
Wed, 06-27-2007 - 9:43am

Hey Evelyn:

Ok, I'm going to be the "witch" about the food issue. Both my boys (Dominic 8.7, aspergers/adhd and Nathan, 5 yrs and 2 days(happy b-day), so called NT w/sensory integration issues) have had feeding issues... done the whole ot thing, etc. The reason I'm writing is because whenever you write about David and Nathan, I always feel like we live some sort of parallel life. with the legos and the explosive anger at times, etc. It's that your kids are my kids a year ahead! Strange... anyhow.

The way I approach the whole fruit and veggie issue is that there is no choice. I know, I'm going to get flamed for it. My kids do not have a choice. They are expected to eat what I put on their plate (and this includes my SD who has never even been asked to eat a veggie or fruit before I came along - parents of an NT only child don't know how easy they have it, and yet still screw up! but I digress....).

Feeding issues and all, they are expected to deal with certain things. Do I pick my battles, yes. I have 2 kids that like cooked broccoli and 1 raw, none like cooked carrots but will eat (eh hem... choke down) raw ones. In our house, they have to eat the following: broccoli, carrots, corn, green beans, cucumbers, apples, grapes, oranges, bananas, strawberry, watermelon, kiwi, pomegranate, honeydew, cantelope, celery, my boys like anise, probably a few others. I don't force them to eat things I don't like because I don't cook them, but they have to try whatever I have on my plate if we're at a restaurant - asparagus, eggplant, mushrooms. if they have a negative reaction to "out of the ordinary" stuff, then I won't force it on them. I think they eat a varied amount of veggies/fruits, that they can decide later waht they want to try. growing up, my mom only insisted that we eat an apple, an orage and a banana a day... I like lots of fruits and have always given my kids them. At this point, nobody really argues. they make faces, they groan occassionally, but they eat it.

The way I do it though, is to pile up the stuff I know they like (apples, corn, bananas, broccoli (not that they love it, but never really have a problem eating it), melons, cukes), and put small portions of what they don't love (say oranges, pomegranate, green beans, etc.). Since my kids eat a veggie/fruit at each meal (break, lunch, dinner) and also with their 2 snacks, I feel comfortable that if say my SD eats 5 grapes cuz she hates them, and my boys a load, but then she eats a large amount of broccoli at dinner, and them a smaller portion of it, it all evens out!

It didn't take too long for my boys as I introduced more varied fruits/veggies because I've always been that way, but in less than a year, my SD has gone from crying at the table for hours, to eating 5 baby carrots (she dislikes almost all fruits and veggies) in under 10 minutes... before all she ate was a banana here and there and some broccoli occassionally... now she eats a min of 5 servings a day!

With all the other battles us moms face with asd kids everyday, I know it seems like I'm just adding more, but for me a year later, it was worth it to get through a family meal without much issue. they know that they'll sit at the table for the max 2 hours, and then be served it for breakfast. that's quite the encourager! Mean, yes, but with a purpose, yes. When I first began my blended family dinners were a nightmare. a year later, we're a different group altogether! we ALL have a healthier diet, we all enjoy dinner much more, and despite the occassional breakdown here or there, getting through meals and feeling I'm giving them what they need was all worth it (it sucked big, big time though while dealing with it!).

That's just my take on it. I'm called the veggie drill seargent in my neighborhood! lol... my son's friend comes over and I let him know in our house, we have to have a fruit with snack. his mom almost passed out when I told her he ate a banana with his cheez-its! she said she battles with him constantly... I told her he had a choice of a banana or apple, and he picked apple, never said a word that he didn't like either! tee hee... gosh, i'm awful!

Good luck. size wise, your Nathan and mine are pretty close. Nate is 46 pounds, 42 inches. Also, about the getting slapped, you are correct, some things were meant to be broken. I do, however, remind my kids that when I was growing up that (look/tone/action/ choice) would have resulted in a whipping... they know I'm not going to do it, but the mysterious Mim (my mother, who died when my 1st son was 3 months old) sounds like such a *itch compared to me, it leaves an impression!

Also (and yes I'll shut up now!), my Dominic does the same thing you were saying David does. The other rule in our house is if you grumble about what you have to eat, you get double... it took them a few times each to figure it out, but they rarely make a peep anymore! lol

Nicole

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-13-2006
Wed, 06-27-2007 - 3:30pm

Nicole,


You're not being a "witch" at all.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-22-2003
Wed, 06-27-2007 - 4:26pm

For what it's worth Evelyn, I am soooo right there with you on this one. It's not like I can "force" Claire to try anything. It's simply not an option. With Noah and Emma, I can, because they have some reasoning abilities. They understand that if you want "X" you need to do "X". But with Claire, it's not possible. I truly believe that Claire would starve before eating a bite of fruit. Her sensory issues are so severe that her brain won't allow her to "get past" the yuckiness. I mean, for crying out loud, the smell of a banana makes her gag (literally)!

The best that I can hope for is that (for whatever reason) she'll decide on her own to try something. Kinda like the cheese pizza thing. Were you in chat that night??? When Claire decided to eat cheese pizza and next thing you know I'm crying and so is half of the chat room???

I used to get really upset about Claire's diet, but I stopped fighting that battle a long time ago. She continues to grow, and make developmental gains...so I accept those as the gifts they are, and move on. I can look back to when I first joined this board 5+ years ago. Back then she wouldn't eat plain pasta, like she does now. She certainly wouldn't eat cheese pizza! So her diet has gone from 8 items to 12...and no, none of them are what a "good mom" would consider healthy. But to me, those are huge gains she's made- and she made all of those eating decisions on her own!

Oh, and trust me, I proudly wear the crown for being "Queen Of All B*tch Moms"- my kids don't get away with anything. But when it comes to food issues, I acknowledge it for what it is...a sensory thing that I have little control over.

(((((Evelyn))))) I'm sorry I can't be of more help to you...but if you find the magic answer to our problem, would you please share it with me? :-)

Amy

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-13-2006
Wed, 06-27-2007 - 5:25pm

Amy,


Actually you've been a great help.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-22-2003
Wed, 06-27-2007 - 9:40pm

You know what Evelyn, I should've made myself clearer...I know that David doesn't have a Dx- my point was that food issues are tough, and there's no easy answer(s) to fixing them. As parents we have to pick our battles wisely, and I don't blame you for choosing to not turn this one into a battle. Hey, I was a very picky kid myself. By most standards, I still am.

In terms of forcing kids to eat things, here's my favorite story.

My father was a rather brusque man. Never graduated high school. Union carpenter who ruled with an iron fist. Not a whole lot of affection was ever shown. We were extremely poor. My dad's rule was simple, you ate what you got- you ate all of it, and that was that. I had a brother (he was 7 at the time) who absolutely hated the strawberry preserves our grandmother used to can. But one day dad got it in his mind that Dale was going to eat these preserves, whether he liked it or not. Dad ended up getting really loud and threatening Dale. Finally my brother took a bite. Two seconds later, he PUKED all over the dinner table. Leaving our large family (eight kids, two adults) with nothing to eat, and nowhere to go in order to get a way from the mess.

Dad never made anybody eat anything they didn't want/like again. He'd happily made somebody and peanut butter sandwich if they weren't interested in the meal on the table.

:-)

Amy

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iVillage Member
Registered: 04-11-2007
Thu, 06-28-2007 - 12:10am
Hi,
I think I understand what you are going through, however, I'm not sure I can give you much advice. Wesley has food issues. I think his are more sensory but I'll let you decide. He really doesn't care for noodles. Elbow mac makes him gag. So I buy spiral now, he can handle that. I don't know why, but I kept trying different kinds of noodles until we found one he likes. The only real rule about eating is that you must try one bite. If it is so horrible you are going to gag and throw up, spit it out, but at least try it to find out if you like it. He also doesn't do too well with potatoes, he can only eat about three bites before he gags, so I only give him three bitefulls, and more of whatever else we are eating to make up for it. Nothing with bread of biscuits etc...So when we have biscuits and sausage gravy, he only eats the sausage gravy. He is ok with it and so am I. Sometimes I have to get creative to get him to try something. Baked bean, pork and beans etc... are farting beans. He thinks that is so funny he just has to try a bite to see if it works. No way will he drink Pediasure or similar stuff, he gags immediatly. Have any of you tried that stuff? ewwwwwww Here is a normal day for Wesley. Breakfast: Fried eggs and toast. Do not let eggs touch toast. Call em dippy eggs, more fun, and he likes to poke the yoke (hehe) Lunch, Bologna sand. that's it, no ketchup, cheese. Just plain bologna. OR Ramen noodle soup, chicken noodle soup. Snack, Banana, or apple or crackers, Dinner: Usually whatever we eat, but also usually modified in some way. If he doesn't really like something, I give him more of something else. I don't give in completly, I make sure he eats something healthy, but he most certainly doesn't get in the food pyramid. I don't stress on it. We have a lot of issues about packaged foods. For example, if you open a pop tart and the corner is broke off, forget it, melt down and won't eat. I just give it to one of the other kids or put it in a zip lock for one of them later. I found that this sometimes impacts other foods, like bananas, if there is even one spot, he can't do it, or a bruise on an apple. Once I figured this out, I can get him to eat them better. I guess trial and error, not stressing, and just keep trying are my best advice. I don't push, but I do keep on trying.
Carey
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-28-2007
Thu, 06-28-2007 - 2:01pm
Hi, everyone-
I have to admit this is the first time I've looked at any of these discussions, much less visited iVillage! But this morning I actually heard an ad on television for iVillage, you know, one of those ads that have a woman saying her question or just what bugs her. This one said something about "just because he's autisic, why can't he. . ." I didn't hear the rest, but I perked up when I heard the word "autism". It never occurred to me to look here for people like me to talk to.
Evelyn, I read your post and all the responses, and I have to tell you that there might be, at least, a therapy program that might work for Nathan. I have three little boys, Gage is 5 1/2 and was diagnosed with Autism when he was 22 months old, Cooper is just about 3 and was diagnosed with Autism at 17 months, and Reilly is 1 1/2 and just diagnosed 2 weeks ago with Autism. At 10 months of age Gage stopped eating all spoon fed foods (stage 2 foods), started with the starchy finger foods and never looked back. Cooper followed the exact same pattern- right at 10 months of age he dropped the stage 2s and to this day eats no fresh fruit and no vegetables of any kind (oh, and neither of them eat any meats). Over my dead body was this going to happen to Reilly, whom I started giving an open cup at 4months of age, soups at 6 months! All was going so well, he was taking sequential sips out of the cup, eating turkey stew and all the veggies in it, until around 14 months of age. Now he is so rigidly set in the repertoire of foods I worked so hard to build for him, and he's dropped all the cup drinking. Reilly also went the farthest in typical development of the three before he began losing skills and failing to develop his set skills. The only silver lining of the devastation of having all three of my children diagnosed with autism is being able to see the patterns and having at least some idea of what to expect. And,so, after 4 years of searching for a decent "eating" therapy (because it's not oral motor, right? It's not about not knowing how to feed oneself), I think I've (and my OTs!) have found something that has a potential to work.
The Sequential Oral Sensory Approach to feeding (S.O.S.) was developed by a psychologist along with OTs and Speech therapists. The very short of it is that it truly takes those tiny steps everyone tells you you need to take and defines them, takes data on the implementation of those steps, and maps out exactly what to do next and how to do it. It's extremely complicated and time consuming in that its very, very slow in the progress you see. However, it is the only approach I've seen that has been able to demonstrate any kind of desensitization around food for my kids.
I read all the posts to your story and totally respect those parents who are doing the "This is how you eat in our house" thing. If I were a stronger woman I might have the energy to do that. However, the flip side is recognizing the "internal and external" motivators around found and how those are constantly fighting in your little one's sensory system with even being able to visually attend to a food item. I might suggest looking up some information on the SOS approach- if you type SOS Approach to Feeding in Google I'm sure you'll find something (and I'll try to find some sites and post them here). The results after about 6 months of SOS therapy for Gage haven't been as significant as for Cooper, but he's been "adversed" by food longer than Cooper has. When cooper began he couldn't even look at any other foods than what was on his plate. Now he's looking at all the foods on the table, labeling them (he just began talking), and touch some new foods. These are tremendous gains, and that's part of this program- really understanding what a small step looks like. Gage used to projectile vomit at the sight of some foods. Now he is using description words to talk about a variety of foods, and at his age I think it's appropriate for him to be empowered to have some (not all) control of food around him. There are two mantras around here. One is "you never have to eat anything you don't want to eat" and the other is "It's my job to chose what you can eat, it's your job to chose if you're going to eat it or not". That was extremely liberating for me- and the kids.
And you're pediatrician isn't trying to scare you about the feeding tube thing, at least she's being realistic about what could happen if the "food thing" goes bad. I'm a speech pathologist and have worked with many kids who have stopped eating altogether and ended up on a feeding tube. Pediatricians don't have many experiences like that (and most parents never hear of something like that happening) so it's outside their reality. I can tell you SOS is all about desensitizing the threat of food so the kid can gain some control around the object of food, and the hope is, eventually develop a healthy repetoire of acceptable foods. I hope for no more than that for my kids around food.
I hope this is helpful . . . and that I can find my way back here!
Cynthia
iVillage Member
Registered: 01-29-2004
Thu, 06-28-2007 - 2:26pm

Evelyn, I was in your shoes and I know exactly. My son was at a point called failure to thrive. Finally, the Doc. suggested pediasure and boy! was that difficult to get into him. He would just throw up. Finally after a year, I found ensure (the old fashioned one with vanilla flavor). If your son likes chocolate, then you can try that one too. Initially, I started with 2 a day. Slowly he came back on the chart. Then I switced to 1 and now we dilute it with milk only on school days. During weekend and holidays we have stopped it. It is expensive. I am trying to wean him off, now that he eats some variety of food (we can actually go to a restaurant and order some food). He is also getting chubby (my friends laugh when I say this).

take care,
Anandhi.

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-22-2003
Thu, 06-28-2007 - 2:32pm

First of all Cynthia, THANK YOU for your post. I know it was directed at Evelyn, but I think the program is worth investigating for my daughter's issues too. My SIL is a SLP (who's been out of the clinic for 6 years starting her family) and she's been unable to offer any help. The OT's haven't been able to help us either. I'd heard of this program when I was employed at Easter Seals, but the program isn't up and running. Plus, it's extremely costly and our insurance won't cover anything of this nature.

Again, many many thanks. Here's hoping you stick around. No doubt you're a busy lady, but we could sure use your experience and knowledge around here.

Amy

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