Reg. Ed Preschool...Sp. Ed. Preschool
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| Sat, 07-30-2005 - 10:17pm |
I am just full of questions tonight. :)
Is there general consensus here that kids on the spectrum are often overwhelmed by a mainstreamed environment? It seems like I have read a lot of that.
My son is currently in a spec. ed preschool (2x week)and also receives itinerant services. The special ed school is good, but not outstanding. The teacher is good but the three aides in the room are mediocre, which seems to be the case schoool wide.
I have been strongly considering placing ds in a regular preschool (four mornings a week) in the fall, with lots of itinerant support. He would still receive speech 4-5 sessions a week, OT 2 sessions a week, and I would add a spec. ed teacher 3 sessions a week. These sessions could take place at home or at school.
My reasoning is that I believe the whole mainstreaming mantra (least restrictive environment possible). My son has not been in a regular classroom yet and I think we should try that before sticking with spec. ed. I also think the positive peer models might be beneficial. My son does hve social deficits, but I still think he might have more luck gaining skill in this area by practicing with NT kids, who can better support an interaction. Also, if I increase ds to 5x week at spec. preschool, he will lose his home based speech teacher who is excellent and has been critical to his success thus far. If ds goes to reg. preschool she can continue to see him.
FYI....right now my son's only diagnosis is verbal dyspraxia. However, after reading extensively, I do believe he could be on the spectrum and that time will tell. We last saw the dev. ped. in December and won't see him again until March.
However, after reading lots of posts.....I wonder if I am kidding myself. I think he will do fine reg. school, but maybe he will be overwhelmed. He doesn't mind noise, or crowds,so that part should be okay. I guess my main concenrs would be social interactions, level of support.....whether staff has enough training to see things as anxiety driven, not behavior problems. I do feel this is a very accomodating preschool. The director has a child in spec. ed and is very supportive of mainstreaming, accomodating differences, etc. If only I had the crystal ball. Any thoughts??
I considered doing 2x a week at each school, but his teacher thinks that would be too difficult for him.
Chrissy

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Actually, I am a big mainstreaming person as long as the teacher is excellent and has lots of support by the principal and specialists. Then it is a fabulous thing. Also, it depends lots on the individual child. Some do wonderfully in a mainstream environment with good role models. Some are overstimulated.
Actually, when Cait was transitioning to kindie the school wanted to keep her in a special ed class. We felt that she would do better in mainstream. We actually went to mediation and came to the consensus of 1/2 day in the special class and 1/2 day in a regular kindie. At that time she did tons better in the regular class and has been mainstreamed ever since until next year. She will be in a special program but still mainstreamed for 4 out of 6 classes. But she is going to middle school and school is just now getting to the point where she cannot function completely mainstreamed anymore. We have found that years when she had a good teacher who understood and had support in place, she did well up until last year. Last year the teacher wasn't bad but it was just getting beyond what she could do in a regular class.
Mike is different. He is one of those that are overwhelmed in mainstream. Even with excellent teachers and high IQ he could not maintain in a regular class. He had excellent teachers in K and 1st and he was able to barely maintain with lots of ups and downs and med changes. But they kept trying and so did he so it worked, though barely. He had one not so great teacher for 4 months in 2nd that sent him on a downhill spiral that was not able to be recovered from even with an excellent teacher, and aide and lots of extra support. So he went into a special class and does much better there.
As for preschool, all 4 of my kids went to the integrated preschool program with 1/2 special needs and 1/2 typical peers. I liked it even for my typical kids. But that is the program we have here. It is a good program with good teachers for the most part based on TEACCH.
Renee
This is a great question and one I hope others will give their opinions on since I am in the same situation. Vaughn did well in the SE preschool and was going to an integrated preschool this Sept. but now we are moving to NC in Sept. After meeting with the school and reviewing his IEP, they felt they want to start him him self-contained to see how he transitions then move him to the integrated if he does well enough. They are also doing a home visit once we're settled (has anyone ever heard of that?). I was really hoping for the integrated from the get-go but I can understand their motives...new state, new house, new school = big regressions. Also, the school day is much longer...9 til 1:30, every day. I worry it will be too long for him but they want to prepare him for mainstream or integrated kindy which is full day. He previously went only 2.5 hours/day every day.
They said they will work him up to that day length gradually. This school system also uses TEACCH...don't know much about it, can you tell me more Renee?
Shelley
Dear Chrissy,
You know what is best for your child and I am sure if you go with your instincts it will all work out. It sounds as if you have thought about this very carefully.
I don't know what the concensus about mainstreaming is at all. It seems to me that it probably will vary from child to child. My DH and I were all for mainstreaming and so we had our son in a typical private pre-k starting at age 2 (1/2 day, 5 days) while he was still receiving the early intervention benefits of one to one ST and OT (2 x a week for each).
My DS is 3 and actually, the transition between early intervention and what happens next has been really hard for us. In fact, I have almost had a nervous breakdown over this very question of Pre-k. You sound much more calm and also have better resources in your state, it sounds like.
Here when they turn 3 the public school takes over and the services are much decreased than during EIP where you can pick any provider. We had to decide if our $$$ were better spent on private therapy (our insurance does not cover) or the private school. Our son only qualified for group ST and OT through the school system, so we would have to pay out of pocket to keep up the services he had been getting, and was benefitting from. (He did qualify for the public school special ed preschool on the basis for his diagnosis, but his ST eval scores were too high to get the county's individual ST and OT.) Interesting too, in the few months it took us to decide when Eric had no OT,just what I could do at home, he definitely regressed. That also played into our decision--we are learning just how sensitive he can be to change.
Our son benefits from typical peers too, but we came to realize that the teachers, who were actually great and listened to whatever we could tell him, were still limited by their lack of special ed training. B/C Eric got all the academic stuff quickly (ABC's, song, numbers etc.) they just figured he was fine. But I watched him a few days from a spot where he could not see me. He did do great at circle time, sat still, paid attention, participated. But the rest of the day he was a loner and when one of the teachers was not interacting with him, he reverted to his old stims. There were 2 little girls he considers his "friends" and if they would start a game, he would follow their lead. He does not tantrum too often, more the type to just revert into his own little world and become silent and uncommunicative.
His neuro doc, ST and OT all thought he would be better suited in a sped program like Renee described. It's called "autistic LEAP" here and a class with 4 HF autistic kids and 6-8 typical peers. The method is also TEACCH. It's also 1/2 day 5 days. I think it will be perfect for him and every part of the day is structured. Eric really, really needs the structure. Without it, he drifts away. That was the problem with the private preschool. I loved that the children had "free time" at "centers" but Eric just didn't know what to do without a lot of coaxing, which the teachers didn't have the time or training to do.
This seems like the best of both worlds to me. I'll have to see how it goes. By doing this, we have the funds to get Eric the private ST and OT he needs and if we had kept him at the private school, we could not have done that. So finances did factor into our decision. However, Eric's need for a classroom setting suited to his needs with structure and teachers who are not only caring but also equipped to deal with his sensory needs but with an eye toward improving the social and pragmatic issues seems better filled in this classroom setting.
Also, here, there is no pre-k for 3 year olds, except those in special ed, so our only "mainstream" option was private school.
I don't know if this helps you at all. Just sharing information. I'd love to hear how it all goes. As I said, our decision on this matter was the hardest thing since getting Eric's diagnosis and we still don't know yet (until school starts) if we have done the right thing.
Time will tell!
Katherine
Thank you to everyone who posted so far. This is such a difficult decision, as I can see positives on both sides.
Katherine....our spec. ed preschool uses TEACHH, but is actually fairly unstructured overall - one reason I am considering reg. ed. It is also a five hour day. I think the TEACHH philosophy is quite child centered, and tries to accept each child where he is,and yet help him along to the next level. It is a positive approach.
Our only mainstreamed option is private preschool (as you said) but it is quite affordable here, and luckily our school district is outstanding about giving services. The attitude so far has been "whatever you think will help your little guy".
Our spec. ed preschool has an integrated class, but I am not too interested as it is 16 kids, 10 spec. needs, 6 NT, 1 sp. ed teacher, 1 reg. teacher, and two aides. It bothers me that the ratio of kids is uneven, and I was told the NT kids often don't stay the entire day.
The stuff you said about Eric being off in his own little world, and the teachers thinking everything is okay.....that is one of my major concerns. DS doesn't tantrum at school really....and also gets academics easily. What stims did your son do? What is his diagnosis?
I hate not knowing! I think this may be one of those decisions we have to make and then run with......until the answer becomes clear.
Chrissy
Shelley,
TEACHH is used by my son's school. If you do an internet search you will come up with some stuff. It is a very child and family friendly approach. It is positive and really takes into account individual differences.
I would feel just like you do...disappointed to not be having my son go into the integrated class, but maybe that is the best thing for now, since his day will be so much longer. Than alone may be a big adjustment. It is a real plus that they will work him into it gradually.
I lived near Cary, NC for five years. Where will you be living?
Chrissy
Shelley,
Try www.teachh.com for starters. :)
Chrissy
Dear Chrissy,
I might be "offline" for a few days as we are going out of town, but I wanted to respond to you briefly. I know how hard this is!
Eric's current diagnosis is PDD-NOS. At around 19 mos. he was originally called "high funtioning autistic" but with ST his speech improved greatly pretty quickly. The ped-neuro changed his diagnosis to PDD-NOS at that point and has lately said Eric may be Asperger's, but that it is kind of too early to tell. Eric did have a definite speech delay, no words at all until 2 1/2 and only after ST. The IEP team that looked at Eric also said he looked a bit Aspie to them. I don't know, apples and oranges I guess!
Eric's speech problems now are mostly pragmatic. He still has problems with pronoun reversal, sometimes does delayed echolalia. He sometimes "zones out" and does not answer questions. You could ask him "what's your name?" and he might answer "Eric!" on a good day. On a bad day he might say nothing. Or he might say something off the wall in response like, "your shirt is red" or "thomas is a tank engine."
His stims are usually spinning things, toys, his fingers, twirling his hair. He hardly ever does this, I notice, except if he is stressed out or bored. He also paces in circles at times mumbling to himself. I find this to be disturbing and I can usually redirect him. He might do this at home maybe once or twice a week. It seems to happen when he just wakes up, like he's not quite "here" yet and in his own dream world. This is the one thing our ped-neuro wants me to keep an eye on. I guess it could also become a sign of something else, but right now it doesn't interfere with his ability to function. It just seems, um, odd to me. A bit "rainman-ish."
He toe walks and hand flaps sometimes, hardly ever anymore, although still when he gets excited. This doesn't bother me too much.
What I noticed when I was "spying" on him at school is that he'd sit in a corner and spin a toy by himself. Or go in a corner of the playground and do the pacing thing, or run in circles and hand flap. I kind of took it be his "self-OT" --that sitting for circle time, for example, took all his concentration and if not given an alternative activity, to self-soothe, this is what he would do.
That's why I thought the sped program would be better, since the teachers are trained to look for these signs. Plus the program here is big on the social, pragmatic stuff and they use the NT kids to help the kids like Eric learn the social "scripts" for lack of a better word.
I wish I could write more right now, but I'll check in again with you after school starts and I hope you will share again too.
Katherine
Katherine,
This si a tough decision, because it is so hard to know what will and won't work. There are so many dependencies and moving parts!
I have two kids, both most likely on the spectrum. One is is SpecEd, and has been since age 3(he turned 7 yesterday and is entering 2nd grade). He *needs* a small, self-contained program. We have noticed that he does best in classes of 6 or less. If the class size (even SpecEd)is 8 or more, his school and home preformance declines. Last year, they started to mainstream with some other boys from his class (all ASD, all good at Math!) for Math, and that has worked out well so far. There was a failed experiment to mainstream just Peter for Science, and he just shut down in the big classroom by himself (even with an aide).
My DD, Siobhan (5) is higher functioning, and easier to 'manage' behaviourally. She spent preshcool in a regular ed classroom -17-20 kids, and did OK in year 1. In Year 2, the SD added a SEIT at the school to her IEP (four days a week, 45 mins each day -I pushed HARD to get it) and she just took off! She did remarkably well last year, to the point were people who do not know us well, (and do not know she has a disablity) commented to me on the wonderful social changes in her. She will be mainstreamed for (full day) K with an aide and some other supports.
I totally back up many of the earlier comments. A lot depends on the teacher(s) and the program. I think you should follow your gut and do what you think makes sense for yor child. The thing is, it is so hard to *know* what will work until you try it. To observe my kids out of school, you would think that Peter, who loves birthday parties and interacts reasonably well with other kids, would do well in the reular ed environment, whereas Siobhan, who often shuts down and covers her ears (that is, she used to), would not. In fact; The opposite is true. I think it comes down to how they can *learn* in a larger group, and ultimately, I think the only way to truly *know* is to try it. Siobhan surprised me, and I am glad I took the chance on her in a large classroom (and lucky the wonderful teacher and aides worked with me, because the start was a bit rough for her!)
I strongly beleve in the LRE. I think that if you think there is a good chance your son will learn in a regular ed classroom, and the RegEd teachers will work with you, to try it. Yes, there is a risk you may have to change schools, but that is not the end of the world either (BTDT), and if it works, great!
Good luck whatever you decide, and remember that you can ask as many questions here as you need to. There are no quotas or limitations!
-Paula
visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
If I may piggy-back on this question - Has anyone had any experience with Motessori and children with ASD? DD is 2.5 and currently receive early intervention ST for 10 hours a month and has made some wonderful improvements in the last 3 months since her evaluation. She is scheduled to start the RECC Toddler program at the end of the month, although her EIS is lobbying hard for her to go tot he preschool program as she thinks that she will do better with a more academically challenging program. DD has no diagnosis beyond sig speech delay and some maybe red flags for an ASD - me, I am not a psych but i think its pretty clear she's on the spectrum, just very high functioning at this point... anyway, our original plan was for her to join her brother at the Montessori school. It is a school that adheres to Montessori methodology of being very individually child centered, but the teachers are more involved in helping the child select appropriate work etc.. so it is pretty structured, which DD needs. She went for an 'interview' which really consisted of an hour in the class with other children her age and did quite well. She was able to focus on her works, figured out the variations and transitioned to other work very well. The teacher is aware of her speech issues and possible ASD and showed me a whole binder of resources for Montessori teaching with children with ASD. We were told if we opt to take her from the RECC and place her in Mont at age 3, we'd still get some services depending on how she was doing at that time, but not as much as she would get if she stays in Recc. I think we've decided to see how she does in the RECC, which is charted for 50/50 NT and special needs and then play it by ear. IT SOUNDS great the Mont stuff, and this particular teacher has received additional training but I'd like any others feedback....
ml
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