Renee - consequences for aggression?
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| Wed, 07-12-2006 - 11:09pm |
I've addressed Renee specifically, but I appreciate input from others as well...
I know many folks here don't have issues with aggression, but you have mentioned before that your son can be aggressive at times. You've also said you have three rules in your house (if I remember correctly)... 1) Obey the first time, 2) Keep hands and feet to yourself, and 3) Use kind words. These are exactly the three things we need to focus on the most at my house. I am so tired of playing referee and putting my boys in seperate rooms because they just can not peacefully coexist within two feet of each other. Usually the fighting starts out as 'normal' brotherly stuff, but *always* ends up getting out of control and someone gets hurt. I'm also spending SO much time and energy trying to get their attention and get them to actually follow through with what I've asked them to do. Most of the time I am ignored, and the responses I do get are rude and disrespectful, not to mention the stuff that comes out of their mouths when they're arguing with each other.
HELP! ***What are the consequences in your house for breaking the three big rules?***
I need to establish a system and write it down so we all remember... I tend to be inconsistant. I also struggle with punishing behaviors that may stem directly from the AS and therefore be somewhat out of his control. We need to teach acceptable behavior, but how do you know what is correctable and what may need to be addressed in another manner (meds?)?
Thanks so much - I value your input on the board. Reading back my post, I sound so lame. I don't let things go without consequences being given, but we are not consistant (and obviously the problems still persist).
Melissa
Andrew (8) AS, Jacob (6) NT, Abbey (20 mo), Sarah (4 mo)

My consequences basically are 2 levels. First is a time out (similar to supernanny style) and second is loss of privelges (for my kids that is all electronics) and if they are really really horrible and that hasn't worked, they are restricted to thier room until they calm down and then are given chores to do.
Agressions are ALWAYS and automatic loss of priveledges and a time out. I have a zero tolerance policy for agression. No warnings. Depending on the agression will depend on the lenght of the loss. For instance, a small slap to his brother after his brother has been pushing his buttons will only get an hour (minimum). But a full rage attack involving significant agressions or any serious aggressions is a full 24 hours. I have gone 2 days at the most. Once I tried to do 4 days but he just can't get that. It was not a learning experience for him after 2 days.
I have an oppinion on agression. It doesn't matter if it was caused by thier AS or not, it has to be consequated. They HAVE to learn not to do that because a police man when they are 20 is NOT going to care if they were melting down or overstimulated when he punched them. Somehow they have to learn how to control it. We aren't doing them any favors by not consequating it regardless. Of course we have to do other things to help them learn alternative behaviors as well. My son is a very good boy underneath. It is his differences that causes his outburst because of anxiety or comprehension or overstimulation but that doesn't make it ok.
Basically Supernanny or "the explosive child" book are both great.
The only thing is naturally, our kids are neurologically different and as such need supports. So there are some things I do.
For listening the first time - I make sure I only give one direction at a time. I make sure he has heard me (not from across the room but right there) and I give him loads of processing time. If the direction is going to include ending a preferred activity, I give transitional cues and use a visual timer. If I don't do these things in advance I shouldn't expect him to listen because he can't. How can a boy listen to a direction he never heard in the first place (Mike has horrible auditory processing and comprehension issues. More than a 1 step direction and having him repeat it is impossible).
Visual checklists and schedules.
EXTREMELY consistent. I have had to become a bit of a drill sargenat but a neutral loving one. However, if I have stated something and I know you heard me and didn't follow, then you are going to time out. Period. If I say no TV, then it is no TV. Don't try to turn it on or you will lose it for longer.
I pick my battles. If I am not going to be able to follow through on a direction, I dont do it. If I can't follow through on "it's time for chores" right now then I wait until I can. If I am going to waver on letting them have a treat then I don't say no. However, once I say no to something or it's time for something I follow through. I only say it once too (as long as I check they heard me)
Schedule. routines and schedules. It helps them to know what to expect and when. We eat at mostly the same time. They do thier chores at a set time (after dinner unless it is thier job to set the table and help with dinner). They take baths at the same time, go to bed at the same time. It really helps.
Certain rules have to be stricter in my house because my kids can't handle it like NT kids. SO for the boys there is a hands off rule. Sorry but there is no horseplay in the house because it always ends up horribly. They can play and tickle fight if I am there but it has to be limited. If they play with lightsabers, they can't make contact. That kind of thing.
I make sure that we have sufficient sensory breaks. That kids aren't getting overwhelmed. That I don't take Mike shopping to 3 stores in a day and rarely with other kids unless I have to. And then it is short.
I take into consideration things that are very hard for him and if he has had lots of those I give him extra time off from others and chores, etc. I lower demands if he has had a stressful day like doctors appointments.
It is a constant struggle and one I am still working on but slowly and surely we will get there.
Renee
I dpn't know about everyone else, but we ARE dealing with aggression now that Malcolm is older (9, PDD-NOS), We never did until this past year. He is understanding more of what is going on around him, which sometimes makes him more upset. I am also finding that consistency AND understanding is key with Malcolm. Both the removal of "screens" (our name for electronics) and a cool down period, which also means noone talks with him while he gets calm -- his demand which we all follow. And we always talk about it afterwards, what happened, how can he choose to do differently, where did he make his "fatal mistake" (his term for really losing his temper).
He has had trouble with aggression at school recently, big trouble, and the entire school is working with him now on steps to follow when angry. He has a reward system for keeping a safe body and a privilege removal system for using his body aggressively. This is working now. I agree with Renee that they MUST learn this. When they are grown up, if they are not capable of controlling their bodies, they will have to be removed from society...
I am also finding the Tae Kwondo is helping, because of the philosophy -- which is basically "know how, but never need to..." Malcolm respects this philosophy. I don't have your problem, which is to say that Malcolm has no siblings. And looking at your post, you also have 2 smaller children ... what a lot on your plate! I don't think you sound pathetic at all, maybe overwhelmed? I bet on a subconscious level, you are always hoping your oldest children can take better care of themselves when you have 2 littler ones... With PDD kids, the teaching takes SO MUCH REPEATING and it takes so much longer for them to learn. But they can learn.
I try to remember just how much harder the outbursts are for my son, that loss of control means his emotions are way too big. I do keep consequences always, but I think of it as a constant teaching tool, and I really work at keeping my temper and fear in check, because he needs me to understand. I often find the key to success is in making the adjustment within myself, then we can get back to the work of learning and continuing to work together for success.
And a quick note on meds -- part of Malcolm's recent trouble has to do with going on meds, but now he is through with the transition period and he is relaxing more. We are using a small dose of Zoloft, still watching and worrying about whether it will work long term, it has been a few months now. The Zoloft doesn't keep him from hitting if he is very very upset, BUT he IS more accessible for discussion when in the thick of things -- which does help. And he is much more verbal about everything, including what goes on with him. Now that he is relaxing, we are seeing much more control --- whew! Just to say the drugs are helping the learning, but they aren't a fix by themselves.
Do you have your AS son on meds? Some of our kids are really helped by meds, some not, it's a scary crap shoot...
Sara
ilovemalcolm
I appreciate the time you took to respond. Everything you said makes a lot of sense and is along the lines of what DH and I had discussed. We are in the process of making a huge poster to hang in the family room and plan to talk to the boys tomorrow. I also know I need to get them on some kind of summer schedule. There's just too much free time in which to start trouble. I think we're going to have to go the "hands off" route as well. I know boys like to be physical, but it gets way out of control almost every time. That will be a hard one to enforce. Heck, all of it will be hard.
You didn't mention what your consequences are for using rude/ unkind words. I tend to give a warning and a chance for them to try again. Sometimes, like you said in a different post, they just don't get it that they can't speak to US the way they might speak to other kids. Do you punish on the first offense or give a second chance? What is your consequence? DH grew up with soap in the mouth for being rude. This seems harsh to me, yet it has been effective when carried out (oh, the drama!).
Thanks again for your valuable input. I wish you lived next door! ;)
Melissa
Thanks for your input, Sara. DS is not on meds. DH is not willing to go down that road yet, but it is a topic for discussion. I often feel he would benefit from something to 'take the edge off' emotionally in order to handle things better.
*Overwhelmed* is the word I use most often these days! The two little ones are a handful, but the boys are definately the harder ones to deal with. It is frustrating that I can't depend on them to get along and do for themselves more often. Some days I think I should be the one on meds!
One of the hardest things is looking back at the end of the day and knowing I could have handled things better... I know DS has a harder time following and remembering the rules, I know he needs compassion and understanding, I know I need to be the adult and use bad times as teaching opportunities... BUT a lot of the time I just don't have it in me and I blow up or get sarcastic, or worse, get ugly with him. It's always in retrospect that I can see what I should have done and how I've blown it - again.
Thanks for listening.
Melissa
I don't think he really gets when he is being rude, so it has to be a teaching experience. Typically he is given a warning or told to try again the right way. I won't respond to his "demands" and will keep reminding him until he talks the right way.
For instance he says something rude, I will tell him "You cannot speak to me that way, try again" etc. I will give him a few chances and sometimes even model for him what he should say and how he should say it as long as he is trying to do it in a better way.
However, If he continues to be rude on purpose and will not be redirected he goes to time out ala supernanny until he is ready to speak to me the right way.
This behavior has worked wonders for Mike. There is no better way to get a strange adult out of your hair like being rude to them. Mike does not particularly like people, particularly adults, so it is his preferred method of making them go away.
Today for instance I sent him to a library thing. Bad mistake for in another post. When I did go in the poor woman behind me said "the guy leading is going too fast and he is getting frustrated. he won't let me help him." but I heard Mike say some nasty comments. I thanked her and explained that he has special needs. She was very sweet and tried to be helpful but as soon as he started his rude angry routine she backed off. Works like a charm.
Renee