So now he is gifted?!
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| Fri, 02-24-2006 - 3:24pm |
Hi all,
I've had an emotional roller coaster of a week. On Monday the behavior therapist said he isn't qualified to dx Ethan because he is too 'complicated'. He mentioned a possible thought disorder and said he might benefit from a psychiatrist and RX respiridal (?sp) He was going to talk to ped, but never did and never called me as promised, either.
Yesterday I met with the school psychologist and also the speech teacher who keeps tabs on Ethan in class. They both said that Ethan is thriving in school, is popular and happy and the kids do not have a problem at this point with his ummm 'unique' conversations. He is obedient and has no meltdowns at school (saves those for me :^) although he is improving at home again, too. They were very reluctant to think of Ethan on RX with a dx of schizophrenia--.
Then the psychologist asked if we had ever considerd the possibility that Ethan might be gifted. (Hey, what mom hasn't! :^) She said with his music and art abilities it is possible that he is gifted and that might account for some of his conversations. You can have a normal conversation with Ethan and then he goes off to very imaginitive thought. He can easily be brought back tho, which really makes me skeptical of the schizophrenia possibility.
At this point we are going to stay the course and not go to a psychiatrist or even pursue a dx. Does this sound reasonable? So far he has seen two psychologists and a Ped and none of them knows quite what to make of Ethan. He is reading and writing and even starting to do math in his head. He covers 25 papers a day with his drawings--then he brings them to us to tell the stories that go with the pics. He is coming out of the emotional turmoil he was in a few weeks ago and is becoming my happy little boy again.
Any suggestions on what else to pursue?
TIA!
Debbi

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A book I read came to mind when I read your post. It's called "Misdiagnosis and dual diagnosis of gifted children and adults" by James T.Webb. It's a great book DH bought but it covers ADHD,Bipolar,OCD,Asperger's,Schizophrenia and how sometimes kids who are gifted are often midiagnosed with a serious disorder when in fact their"quirks" are just giftedness.
Teresa
Gifted is a very good possibility. You should do a search on Gifted or Aspergers. There are some great articles out there on what it is and the differences. Kids who are highly gifted can have some AS like quirks.
My friends son is highly gifted and ADHD. He has been evaled for AS a ton of times but he isn't, he is just his own guy and gifted. He also would talk to himself and also have these completely outlandish conversations with you. His mind is always going a mile a minute and somewhere else, but in a good way.
He is also completely obsessed with legos, dinosaurs and star wars. When he was in K with Mike it was all he would talk about. BUT Eli has friends, has theory of mind, etc. He has some of the quirks of AS but he doesn't have the core deficites. He is still Mike's one buddy and is the boy that goes with Mike as a typical peer to his psychologist for social skills therapy.
Renee
This is why I love this group!
Renee, your son's friend sounds very much like Ethan. The more I hear about other kids like him, the more frustrated I am with the Dr. who said Ethan was likely schizophrenic/suggested anti-psychotic meds!!
Also, I appreciate the info about the book on misdiagnosis--as soon as I read the title I raced to ebay and bought it!
Thanks all!
Debbi
Schizophrenia is an extremely significant/severe diagnosis not given out easily. There was a mom here who's son was evaluated for it (she stops by now and again) and she once explained it too me and just how severe a child has to be to get that diagnosis. Schizophrenia is typically not seen until adulthood. When a child has schizophrenia it is a very severe thing. I have known tons and tons of special needs kids and only 2 childhood schizophrenics. Both were in a residential placement and severely impacted.
I would have definite concerns about any doctor who suggested that at your sons age with your sons symptoms and profile of strengths. It just doesn't fit.
A psyhciatrist told me last year my son couldn't be AS because kids with AS didn't have behavioral problems. Once you told them a rule they stuck to it and never broke the rule. She just blew it off when I mentioned meltdowns and rages, which are known to be fairly common amung ASD kids. She wanted to hospitalize mike and give him pretty severe meds too. We never went back to her.
Not all doctors are smart or even know what the heck they are doing unfortunately. We have to be informed consumers in every area.
Renee
Renee,
I agree with you. Not all docs are smart. The meltdown happens because they are such rule sticklers. They cannot handle when a NT kid gets away with it and hence the meltdowns.
- Anandhi
What are his drawings like? FWIW, childhood schizophrenia is very rare. My brother has schizophrenia, but only became ill in adolescence. His troubles in childhood were with processing language and social stuff. The kid did not have any friends really and withdrew in group settings. There are also some subtle physical issues associated with schizophrenia (meaning they may or may not be present and you can have the issues without having schizophrenia). These may include hypotonias, gross and/or fine motor problems and coordination problems. Schizophrenics also usually have a slightly peculiar gait, most likely related to the above. Further, a researcher (Bradshaw) has made the following observation: "For example, with both autism and schizophrenia, we find there are reluctance or even problems sometimes in initiating movements to the right" http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s242696.htm
Here is an article about the speech issues:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/157/5/794
Here is another article about co-morbid factors in childhood schizophrenia:
http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2001/December/childhood3.asp
This is interesting and mentions both the physical features as well as discusses the language peculiarities at length:
http://www.dialogues-cns.org/brochures/09/nn4/DCNS%2009_12.asp
I would really urge you to have your son evaluated by a competent neuro-psychiatrist specializing in pediatrics. It is quite unlikely that he has schizophrenia, but he should have a full eval for giftedness and a good doctor may be able to add significant insight on how best to help him.
Your post is very interesting. In fact, many kids with ASD's(particularly AS) were diagnosed with schizophrenia prior to understanding what autism really is. If you look at alot of those early symptoms of schizophrenia it is similar to what a child with aspergers may have. I am sure that can make early diagnosis difficult. My understanding is that the difference with schizophrenia is the hallucinations, right?
In fact, I have to look again, but I believe that in the diagnostic criteria for autism or aspergers it specifically states that the person can't meet the criteria for schizophenia. In other words, if a person has all the symptoms of ASD but also has the symptoms of schizophrenia (ie hallucinations) then schizophrenia is the proper diagnosis.
Anyone ever watch "A Beautiful Mind"? Tell me that guy didn't seem like an aspie. I have read John Nash's biography and he had alot of Aspie like symptoms in childhood from what I recall. There was alot of talk in the AS community when that came out that he seemed AS and why wasn't AS mentioned. I think it wasn't mentioned because he isn't, he is schizophrenic but they can have a pretty high amount of overlap of symtpoms between the 2.
Renee
Found it, the last part under the diagnostic criteria for Asperger Syndrome. Autism has a similar one at the end but lists Childhood Degenerative disorder.
"F. Criteria are not met for another specific pervasive developmental disorder or schizophrenia."
Yes, you are right that autism spectrum disorders used to be diagnosed as childhood schizophrenia at one point. It is also striking how many overlaps there are in the symptoms. That is why the research Bradshaw (my first link) is doing is so interesting to me. I have long been convinced that there is some sort of connection between the two conditions.
I am not sure that hallucinations are the dividing line. Adult aspies, who have previously gone without a dx, often have breakdowns around middleage, typically when they move into management positions at work, for example, and the social stuff starts to overwhelm them. These people are also sometimes misdiagnosed with schizophrenia. Edgar Schneider, who wrote "Discovering My Autism," is one such person. In his book he has a list of the symptoms that are common to autism and schizophrenia and explains what the differences are.
In any event, I am really quite shocked that any professional would suggest a dx of childhood schizophrenia so flippantly. After rereading the links, it is fairly clear that this is a serious and rare dx, and moreover that with childhood onset there is usually a significant cognitive impairment as well. So, to suggest giftedness and childhood schizophrenia for the same child makes no sense at all.
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