Sudden "hitting" issue at age 9

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Registered: 09-13-2006
Sudden "hitting" issue at age 9
10
Sat, 12-16-2006 - 8:38pm

Geez!

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Registered: 12-16-1998
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 7:55am

If you get any ideas please let me know!!!

My DS is 12 and I have the same discipline issues. There is just NOTHING that he values enough to remove for hitting/swearing/spitting etc. I have tried all the usual suspects. I gave up on Time Out when he was 3 as he used to just sit in the chair screaming about never being allowed to get off the chair for ever, he just couldn't connect being quiet with getting up!!!!

I hope you get some answers for David.

Helen :)
Aussie Mum to Addison (AS/ADHD/OCD/TS Nov94) & Eloise (NT May2000)

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Registered: 09-09-2005
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 11:59am

Once again David, Liam's clone, mirrors our house;)

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Registered: 10-03-2004
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 12:04pm

Dear Evelyn,

We had our own issues with hitting with our 9-year-old when he was in too stressful of school situation without appropriate support (don't even get me started on that school, which is supposed to be staffed completely with specialists!!!). I know that everyone focuses on the punishment for hitting, but in my book, that is not particularly effective as a deterent when the hitting is coming from overwhelm. As Renee once said, having a punishment for physical aggression for ASD kids is more so the parents feel better about their parenting, ie. not too lenient, than it really is as a teaching tool for ASD.

We have gone more the route of social stories, catch phrases that he understands when he is winding up, "how does your Engine Run" and "Magic 123" types interventions. We do impose now that whatever Malcolm was hitting over, he doesn't get right away -- because of the hitting. Did he want a toy someone else had? He hit, he can't get it. And that his first his job is to calm down, hitting is an indicator that he allowed his "hot temper" to get too hot. Maybe later he can get what he wants, with an "I'm sorry" and then we also have him think up what he can do action-wise to "atone". Getting him involved with the thinking process on atonement has been hugely helpful.

BUT we just have not had any hitting to speak of since he left overwhelming school and is being homeschooled -- except a few situations where, like David, he was WAY overtired and hungry. And he is still on playdates regularly with friends, social skills groups, playgrounds, etc.

The biggest help for not melting down from hunger, IMO, is protein. Nuts, Yogurt, chicken or meat, these are great anti-anger-spike foods. I smear apple slices with nut butter, even grab a protein bar (which are high sugar, but he likes the Cliff bars) or a protein shake. When he was at achool, his lunch was full of protein and that did help him through the afternoon.

We have found that Malcolm can now curb his own hitting most of the time, and NOW I am happy for him having had the period of time when he couldn't control himself because it really is helping him learn in the long run that he needs to keep himself in check more. Learning how no matter what the circumstances will be a longer process, I'm sure -- luckily we have lots of help, right now he has 5 hours a week with OT who is really focusing on relaxation, self-regulation, very cool.

Good luck. Anyways, I'm sure other will chime in with other ideas. It always helps me to remember this is harder on him than me, really. And that this, like everything, has to be learned...

Sara

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Registered: 11-28-2006
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 3:57pm

That is wonderful advice Sara! Evelyn, my 10 yr old (and sometimes 7 yr old) is exactly how you describe! There just never seems to be a consequence that has ever worked. I can't get them to there rooms (never have been able too, unless I physically pick them up) and when I do, I have to hold the door shut, while things are being thrown at the walls and doors, book cases overturned, mattresses pulled off the bed...

Eating is another thing, my 10 yr old has always been extremely picky, ie gets into his hamburger fix and will only eat it night and day for a month or so. He will eat, then an hour or two later demands more because he's "starving".

On the eating thing, I gave up along time ago. It's too stressful to get him to eat like we do. The only veggie he will eat are raw carrots, so I try to throw those in there when I can. He will eat grapes, strawberries, and sometimes apples and peanut butter, so I try to get those into him when I can. Heck sometimes all he has for dinner is apples and peanut butter, but what can I do? I can't tye him down and stick a funnel in his mouth.... So I decided, that he will live, and I gotta let go of the making him eat like we do. You have to also know that he was born like this, litterly. When I started him on baby food, he would refuse to eat. It was sooo hard because I couldn't understand, he seemed to "not" like food, which would baffle me to no end. But now that I think of it, I think he was so used to the breast milk and formula, that that is what he wanted, just like he does now.

A good way I have found to get vitamens in him is by giving him carnation instant breakfast in between meals. It has calcium (the milk) and protein and lots of vitamens. He likes it because he likes chocolate milk.

On the hitting thing, its a big problem between both boys. They fight constantly and hitting is normal between them. It drives me crazy! One thing my husband and I decided was the best thing to do with them is curb there time around each other. I hate to say it, because we are a family, but they just can't spend hours alone in the same room with each other, because something always happens. So our answer.... is to separate them. I take one child and find something to do with him, or get him into an activity, and Tony does the same thing with our other son. We even have to split them up in the car. If tony's driving, Christopher sits in the front seat and I sit in the back with Nicholas, or vice versa.

With the punishment thing, I have always had problems with consequences working myself... but if I can get him to calm down, and show him that his actions really hurt his brother, and get him to feel something about what he did, then I'm happy because I taught him empathy. And imo that is really the main goal of discipline. It means to teach, not necessarily to punish.

Anyway, sorry for the book here lololol. You just really hit something with your post, as Chris is being tested for AS now as you know. And everytime I read something like this my jaw drops you know?

Lainie

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Registered: 04-07-2003
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 5:06pm

Your kids sound so much like Josh(11). He doesn't hit outside kids but he will hit his brothers. Usually the little one will hit back, or he gets ratted on.

Natural consequences usually work some what for Josh. Just the threat of losing something can work. But otherwise if he loses a privelegde or he has to go to bed early or what ever.. he willcome out of his room till the cows come home. G-D forbid you ruin the bed time ritual, of reading the newspaper(yes he reads it)Right now he just got High School Musical for Hannukah and he will probably play with that till the next big fad. One time he misplaced his Game Boy and once pointed out why. For 6 months he did not miss it. TV he will try to sneak or make our lives misreble. Plus when I threaten to take away his favorite activties .. such as scouts. He will keep trying to figure out the loophole. Such as if i lose Scouts does that mean Hebrew School is included on this, No Josh.. Hebrew School never goes on the table to lose because it is important to us, but you can lose the Youth group that follows it.. NOOO! Josh you will loose Bowling.. NOOO CRYING threatening to run away..good grief

Sticker charts don't work for us because 1) i am not disciplined enough to do it. 2) Josh becomes so fixated on the sticker he forgets why he is getting the sticker.

Sometimes I have Josh work off his bad behavior. example.. Picking up the dog poop in the back yard, vaccumming, etc etc.
Poor tests scores means he has to rewrite the whole test with the correct answers (usually when Josh fails a test it means he rushed through it and did not read it and did not answer half the questions, not because he doesn't know the material) If he starts crying and tantruming it means early bedtime because natural consequences means he must be tired to act up like that. He has lost out on camping trips he has stayed home from youth group one time etc. And because he lost that TV went with it etc.

Not saying it always works.. Maybe it makes me feel like I tried. Most of the time is a good kid.

Josh also gets fixated on certain foods. Noodle soup, If he goes to Wendy's or Burger King the hamburger must have cheese and a tomato with kethcup, no mayonaise etc. He likes Drinkable yougurts will drink the whole pack in one day if given a chance) but not the same stuff that comes in the tube or a cup. Right now he will drink Boost (the Boost plus chocolate, similar to Ensure). He loves turkey but it has to have gravy, but ketchup will work in a pinch. Keeps worrying where his next meal is coming from, starts worrying about what is for dinner at breakfast time.. In many ways, I am lucky and he will eat a variety but if beef or any meat requiring really chewing could be left off the menu he would be much happier.

Rina

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Registered: 09-13-2006
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 10:20pm

Editted to say that I meant to address this post to "ALL".

Avatar for teri_b
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Registered: 03-27-2003
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 10:53pm

BUT Evelyn....

Don't you know we're just terrible horrible parents who don't make our kids behave or eat properly?

Hehe - we were at Meijer (similar to WalMart) grocery shopping last Sunday night, which was a BAD idea anyway because I'd just picked 4yo Ryan up from his dad's and he and Josh were still adjusting. But we only needed 3 things, and I figured we'd run in and save a trip Monday night. M-E-L-T-D-O-W-N city - ALLLLL through the store. Finally I heard nosey gramma mutter "If that were my child I'd....." I looked her in the eye and said "Would YOU like to shop with him then? I'll let you!" Funny - she suddenly had nothing more to say and wheeled her cart around.

I am SO sick of people telling me how to get my boys to sit still and eat and behave like "normal children". Ummm. Ok. How bout we ask the "normal" children to behave like Aspies for a day and see how that flies? Because I doubt they'd be able to pull off "Aspie" any better than our kids do "Normal".

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Registered: 05-28-2004
Sun, 12-17-2006 - 11:59pm

I love this thread. I agree that this is a great, non-judgemental board.

My guys are younger, but the older, a five-year-old, has never been a time-out or sticker chart guy.

My 5 year old has only recently begun to benefit at all from any kind of "consequence" thing. I do a variation of 1-2-3, but the time out is to stop and sit whereever he is and count to ten, which is very short. It is working for minor touchy-feely sensory offences such as sticking his hands up other people's shirts, twirling other people's hair, or giving unwelcome kisses. I like the 1-2-3 concept of giving a few chances before the consequence, because a consequence everytime would be too harsh, but ignoring would not teach or estinguish. At the same time, I make a mental note to squeeze in a quick sensory something when he is doing a lot of his space-invading behaviors, and I occasionally even follow through. In addition, he is allowed to negotiate the counting. (Can count to 100 by tens, can count backwards, etc., which gives him some control over something I can bend on.) He sometimes makes his own time-out longer, for example, by counting to 100 by ones, and he likes and benefits from the break.

I have rejected things like sticker charts for the very same reasons others have posted. My son would be just wrecked at not earning a reward, and would not understand it at all, even if it were obvious to most people. The stress of not earning a sticker would make him unable to focus on anything else. For some kids, it is all positive, chances to earn pretty stickers. For mine, it would be all negative.

He does this strange paralell universe thing where he says, and seems to believe, something such as I made him hit his brother, or that wasn't a hit, it was a nice pat, etc., and if I am trying to explain a consequence, it forces me into an argument about what really happened. Since my son invents his own reality, I cannot win the argument. The more I try, the more developed his own reality becomes.

I finally got smart about a month ago and invented a little chart with a picture of my son that can be velcroed to the no-no area, the okay area, and the very good area. It gives him the feedback that he is not reading from the steam pouring out of my ears. When I finally made that chart, it occured to me that some parents do not really think about this, because their children respond to the displeasure of their parents, and change their behavior to avoid it, while my children are not aware that a little thing like leaping on an adult and tackling her everytime she sqwats can get annoying.

My son hates to be in the no-no area, but I usually can avoid arguing about what happened by changing the subject to what he can do to get out. I show him the clock, and, if he is affectionately but dangerously and annoyingly tackling me, for example, I explain that if he does not jump on me for 10 minutes, I will put him back in the okay area. This is far more goal oriented than a sticker chart. And avoiding the argument means that he does not get a chance to convince himself that it was not him or it was not really a bad thing.

The very good area is for moments such as when his brother hits him or takes his toy, and he does not hit back or grab back. I also put him in the very good area intermittently for doing something thoughtful such as helping me sweep up, or making his bed.

As for eating, my five year old has always had a very short list of acceptable foods, and he is a bit too skinny, and he is not aware when he is hungry. Luckily, my 2 year old eats a much bigger variety of foods and he already reports hunger. His minor sensory issues such as stuffing and licking are not that disabling. However, my 2 year old hates to sit still, (I am already dreading the future ritilin hints) so getting him to eat is a challenge for getting him to sit. I have only one hint. When it gets really bad, pack some sandwiches and eat in the car. 2 year old has a 5 point restraint, so sitting is no longer a problem. both children are entertained by the passing scenery, and they eat casually in thier seats. My five year old has always eaten better while a little distracted. We have literally driven away from some stresses such as fights over toys that are in the house. And verbal fights, which are common for my loquasious cuties, are minimized by the full mouths. (I also play music in the car.) The only problem is that it is not safe in some people's minds. I believe that I would hear and see a choking incident happening just as well or better than at home, (where I may have to follow one of my kids into another room) but not everybody would agree. In addition, it is a reasonable argument that hitting a bump could make it harder to chew and swallow safely. I am willing to take that chance, since my son also likes to rock in his chair, which can have the same adverse affect on chewing and swallowing. But that is my choice. It works for me, especially on days when I feel like I've had to be "on" too long. My kids eat. I don't get the hungry behaviors. And I don't have to be too "on."

Sidney

APOV on Autism
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Registered: 11-28-2006
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 1:15am

I have to say I love this board also. I finally feel like I have found my home. Even if my child doesn't test with an AS type of dx. The help with the behaviors is so comforting.

You guys are awesome!

Lainie

iVillage Member
Registered: 04-08-2003
Mon, 12-18-2006 - 4:56pm

Hi Evelyn, your post came at a time when I am dealing the same with Sravan. Last week of school and he hit some boys twice. Sravan, usually never hits and he has started this now. I am really not sure how to handle this. Both times came from boys teasing him. I just went on Amazon and ordered 3 books about how to handle frustrations. Other than that no help from here.

Yelling for help,
Anandhi