Theroy of Mind ? Paula
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Theroy of Mind ? Paula
| Sat, 06-24-2006 - 9:31pm |
Paula,
I know you often talk about this as being the defining thing for ASD kids and even between your own kids. I remember covering it in a class at college but I don't remember when it first becomes evident that a child has Theroy of Mind.I couldn't find a lot of information on the web. I remember reading somewhere that a child who does not have Theroy of mind will look for a hidden object in the same place it was hidden and found before. It's funny I remember testing this out on Jake when he was younger and before his official diagnosis but he always looked in different places. I tried the same thing on Ella just yesterday and she failed miserably.Is that a reliable way to test a child?At what age should Therory of mind be first seen? Can you give me other examples in everyday life of when this would be seen? Thanks!
Teresa
I know you often talk about this as being the defining thing for ASD kids and even between your own kids. I remember covering it in a class at college but I don't remember when it first becomes evident that a child has Theroy of Mind.I couldn't find a lot of information on the web. I remember reading somewhere that a child who does not have Theroy of mind will look for a hidden object in the same place it was hidden and found before. It's funny I remember testing this out on Jake when he was younger and before his official diagnosis but he always looked in different places. I tried the same thing on Ella just yesterday and she failed miserably.Is that a reliable way to test a child?At what age should Therory of mind be first seen? Can you give me other examples in everyday life of when this would be seen? Thanks!
Teresa

It isn't a reliable test on a child as young as ella. NT kids won't get theory of mind until about 4 for those tests. Also you have to factor in language processing considerations. David didn't get the Sally Anne test even at 5 and I know he has theory of mind. I am not sure he would even get it now because he doesn't attend long enough to language like that. Ok, so he has some of his own issues, lol.
Does she get your attention first when she wants to show you something? When dave was little he would heavy hand tap me (he thought he was tapping- more like whacking) until I looked to see what he was showing me. If that didn't work he would literally turn my face to look at it. He is very persistent, emily wasn't like that but she always made sure to get my attention if she was showing me something. Cait and Mike still have to be reminded to do this. They may be telling me something important or showing me something and they never realize whether or not I am paying attention. Mike is actually better at this than Cait is. She will have conversations to the trees and you never know she was talking to you.
By Dave making sure I saw what he saw I knew he had ToM because he understood from my point of view that I wasn't seeing what he was seeing.
That is probably the most basic way I can think to see ToM in a smaller child. It typically isn't testing until they are older and even then higher functioning children can pass simple ToM tests but may not get higher level ones, or double blind ones. They can be taught some of them as well but may not have it in regular life. I know Cait can pass the Sally Anne test easily but she still forgets to check to see if the other person can even hear what she is saying.
Have you done the MChat screening for her? Or filled out the pdd questionaire on the childbrain site (I think that is it).
Renee
Teresa,
I'm no expert.
visit my blog at www.onesickmother.com
And this is where I get very confused about Malcolm. I know he has trouble with theory of mind. When he was younger, he was more like Dave, using his hands on my face to get attention, thwacking (patting), also voice regulation when trying to get someone's attention can be a real challenge. "SHHHH! I'm right here, you are screaming, my ears are ringing!!!"
Part of me thinks he is just smart and that theory of mind is bring learned. He is such a sponge, and he pays attention ... well, except when he doesn't. When he is VERY anxious, much of his theory of mind seems to go right out the window. He interrupts, I sometimes have to remind him that I am talking to someone else and he must wait 'til I am finished. But then many times he gets this easily, using "excuse me". Understanding intent can be harder, but again sometimes he really knows intent, sometimes he doesn't. But it is often unclear to me if he is just (A) an amazing quick study and improviser, or (B) his theory of mind is developing. When he really misses cues, then obviously I think (B).
I think some of this stuff is why he got the borderline PDD-NOS dx.
Darn it, I was trying to go back to change a few things in previous past and accidently hit "POST". I meant to say when he misses cues, I think (A) he is really a good improviser and faker...
Malcolm's SID is very high when he's stressed, and when SID is in high gear, theory of mind fades.
he's a cipher, sometimes.
Sara