Vaccinations?

Avatar for ribrit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-24-2001
Vaccinations?
15
Sun, 07-25-2010 - 5:41pm

I am piggy backing on my other post about the antidepressants I was on with that child.

Here is the other thing. I have 5 children. The first 4 were fully vaccinated. My dh and I never had these vaccinations as they were not even on the market when we were born. Most adults have never had the vaccinations expected of children today.

Anyway, 1st child had birth trauma. Then had ADHD and PDD-NOS. I always figured it was the birth trauma. Of course, he was speech delayed.

2nd child, speech delayed and had auditory processing disorder.

3rd speech delayed more than ay of the others. Has PDD-NOS that can look like classic autism at times, but often you cannot tell. It depends on if he is having a neltdown or not. He had NO pre-autism signs. He was way ahead in every way. Physically, he slowed down a lot after the MMR. He stopped gaining weight and might have lost some. He had no emotional or behavioral signs of ASD yet though. Then at 2 yrs old, he got a flu shot. He went down hill very quickly after. He started to have screaming meltdowns. He would just scream and scream and throw things and throw things off shelves. It was awful. He went from the happiest little boy ever, to miserable and unpredictable. He also started refusing to speak when he did not want to, like when he had anxiety and such.

4th child, mostly vaccinated. Speech delayed, no other problems. But he does not seem to be learning how to read. The only vaccination he did not have was the 4 yr MMR, but he did have the 1 yr old one. He is way ahead in math in school, about one grade level. But does not seem to be learning how to read yet. But he is only 6 so we have time.

5th child, not vaccinated hardly at all. He did get the DTP because of all the cases of whooping cough. He is almost a year old and has 6 words in his vocabulary! That is ahead actually.

I read that vaccinations have been associated with the wide range of communication disorders, which go from dyslexia to full blown Autism to what is in between (speech delays and other forms of Autism disorders).

We kept saying when we were having this baby that if he ends up being our first non speech delayed child, after 4 speech delayed children, we would blame the vaccinations. Then it ended up turning out that way, so far. I will stlll be out on this until he turns 3.

What do you think?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2006
In reply to: ribrit
Sun, 07-25-2010 - 8:26pm

i believe you will always be looking for something that is responsible for causing your children to have autism. for a few years i looked to blame something

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: ribrit
Sun, 07-25-2010 - 10:15pm

Well, as I said in my antidepressant post I do think immunizations played a role in my son's ASD.

                                

Avatar for littleroses
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-28-2003
In reply to: ribrit
Mon, 07-26-2010 - 4:28pm
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-10-2005
In reply to: ribrit
Tue, 07-27-2010 - 7:21pm

To be hones, I've looked into this a lot and I don't believe that vaccinations cause autism in most cases. The Dr. that started all of that has been totally discredited and the original article that he wrote that caused the whole vax-autism debate has been not only discredited but removed from the journal it was originally published in. He is very popular in the US but I don't think he is even allowed to practice medicine in England anymore because of violation of ethical issues.

I know in our case my brother had many similar issues to my son who is on the spectrum. It seems genetic for the most part but perhaps in conjunction with something environmental going on. The irony is that some of the illnesses that children are vaccinated against can in rare cases cause brain damage and autism like symptoms.

just mho

iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2008
In reply to: ribrit
Fri, 07-30-2010 - 6:22am

This may veer into something that would be more appropriate on the 'debates' boards, but I personally am really angry with Dr Wakefield (the scientist who started the whole issue by linking autism with the MMR in a study that has since been totally discredited, plus he has been struck off). What he did was not only totally bad science, but it was also dangerous and irresponsible and your fears are a prime result of that. There is absolutely no proven link between vaccinations and ASD, and he was irresponsible and dangerous to suggest there was, because it made parents and doctors scared, and diverted a lot of attention away from real, good quality research into understanding the causes and effective treatments and support for ASD. I also hold him personally responsible for the rise in, to my mind, *preventable* cases of death, brain damage and injury caused by unvaccinated children catching illnesses like measles that are *not* harmless.


At the moment, with the knowledge we have, ASD is not preventable. No amount of you beating yourself up or feeling guilty or wishing you had, or hadn't, vaccinated, or eaten something in pregnancy, etc will change that. I'm a scientist, albeit a social scientist, and my interpretation of the available evidence is that it is a mixture of genetic and environmental factors that we do not fully understand.


With vaccinations, as with everyone involving your family, you need to make your own decisions based on the best evidence you have available and what is best and right for your family. I only know that I have worked with children who have been brain damaged by measles - and that was heart breaking because that *is* preventable. So I vaccinate my kids because the evidence suggests to me that not vaccinating them is far riskier than vaccinating them (although I am cautious about the overloading of vaccines and do ask my GP to space them out because all of mine got very high fevers, and that's risky for my DS who has had febrile convulsions - which again, may or may not be a factor in his ASD).


I do feel passionately about this because I think the 'search for a reason' stuff is just another way for us parents to beat ourselves up and feel guilty, and it doesn't really help us or our kids at all. I'd far prefer it if all the money wasted on proving a link that ended up not being there, and the anxiety and cost to parents and children, went instead on services and support to enable our children to lead full independent lives and supported us to be the best parents we can be to them.


Kirsty, mum to Euan (11, Aspergers Syndrome) Rohan (7, NT) and Maeve (4, NT)

"My definition of housework is to sweep the room with a glance"


"My definition of housework is to sweep the room with a glance"


Follow my blog on http://mumsnet.com/blogs/kirsteinr/


 

Avatar for ribrit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-24-2001
In reply to: ribrit
Fri, 07-30-2010 - 9:42am

I think it is a mix of genetics and the vaccinations. I have religious reasons to not do some of the vaccinations (some are made from aborted human babies). I recently found out I am allergic to pork, which is in the MMR. My oldest, who has PDD-NOS has an autoimmune disorder and had to be tube fed for years. Yet, they just gave him all the vaccinations. These vaccinations had animal products in them that he could not eat, yet, they were injecting him with them! I do not know which came first, the injections or the immune disorder.

My younger one with PDD-NOS reacts to food dyes. I really think he has reacted to food dyes.

To add to it, I carry 1 copy of the MTHFR gene and my dh carries one copy. I bet if checked, my 8 yr old got both. When I googled it, if you have this gene, it raises your chances of autism spectrum disorder. I think it would stand to reason that if you have 2 copies, it would really raise your chances. It involves your body not being able to rid of chemicals in your body and having immune responses. (I think, that is very simplified, but if you have 2 copies, you will likely have a hard time carrying a pregnancy, a woman would have a hard time).

iVillage Member
Registered: 12-22-2003
In reply to: ribrit
Mon, 08-02-2010 - 10:44pm

I have never blamed vaccines for my children being diagnosed with autism. Neither my aspie nor my autie were "normal" before their vaccines so I never saw any regressive type behaviors, etc.

However, with our now two year old I have been incredibly careful with her vaccines. We are using a modified schedule and not allowing any "multi-shot" sessions. Our reason for this is simple, we have a long family history of auto-immune issues and I do believe that the current vaccine schedule is too much, too soon and created as a "one size fits all" kind of thing. Well, that "one size" doesn't fit my family. The difference in the number of vaccines that my husband and I received, versus the ones that our children have been presented with...well, the increase is staggering. Consider, also, the increase in the use of antibiotics over the last 30 years. When we were growing up, if you got sick, you stayed home from school and your mom took care of you. In today's society, we are always looking for a quick fix. Parents either *can't* miss work, or they simply don't want to, in order to care for their sick kids. If a child gets a cough, it's off to urgent care to beg for antibiotics. We don't allow ourselves to get sick and therefore, our immune systems never learn how to fight disease, infection, etc.

My belief is that autism is caused by a complex set of factors. Genetics, environmental issues, auto-immune responses- whatever the issues may be, there is no doubt that autism is on the rise and has been for quite some time. Those of us who have been around this board for 8+ years (Candes, Paula, Dee, Renee...I know there are more of us but those are the ones that always pop into my head first) can attest to the incredible rise in the number of parents seeking answers. So while I don't believe that vaccines caused my children to have autism, I'm taking what information I know about our family's predispositions into consideration, and trying to vaccinate Lucy as carefully as possible. Vaccines are critical to our society. We need them. We just need to be more careful about how we use them.

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Amy

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iVillage Member
Registered: 01-07-2009
In reply to: ribrit
Mon, 08-02-2010 - 11:38pm

"I think it is a mix of genetics and the vaccinations. I have religious reasons to not do some of the vaccinations (some are made from aborted human babies). "

Where are you getting this information from?

I personally find your spreading of this misinformation harmful and I would prefer that you go to the debate board to share in this like mindedness. I have been visiting the autism and PDD-NOS boards to get support and this link is not helpful at all!

Avatar for ribrit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-24-2001
In reply to: ribrit
Tue, 08-03-2010 - 9:47am
Which information are you talking about? Many people have said they thought vaccinations can be behind the rise in autism. Why are you attacking my post only? I am not spreading lies that it is causing autism, I am asking other opinions to whether it could have contributed to their child's issues.


Edited 8/3/2010 9:49 am ET by ribrit
Avatar for ribrit
iVillage Member
Registered: 02-24-2001
In reply to: ribrit
Tue, 08-03-2010 - 11:38am

Of course, maybe what you REALLY meant is that you have never read the ingrediants lists on vaccinations or you read them but did not know what the words meant, but you want to start a debate over your lack of information.

The manufacturers do not deny that they use human diploid cells in 4 of the vaccinations on the market right now. This includes Chicken Pox and Hep A. I am guessing that IF you even read the ingrediants, you did not know what the word meant, so you skipped over it, and then decided you would try to pick a fight, all in the name of debate, over the ingrediants. I am not going to debate facts. If you want to go to a debate board and debate whether the manufacturers lied when they said they included diploid cells in the making of the shots or even the definition of diploid facts, or whether the sky is blue or if men have really been to the moon, or if the war in Iraq is really going on or all made up and happening in a movie studio, you go right on over and debate it. http://www.rxlist.com/varivax-drug.htm Every site that lists the ingredients of varicella shot admits it has diploid cells. Google and google all you want, you will not find anyone denying it. Then google what diploid cells are... http://www.viromed.com/services/product/wi38.htm Now, maybe you think there is sone big conspiracy theory where someone out there has hacked in to every single last website out there put out by pharmaceuticals and such to claim diploid cells are in the shots, and even reprinted all the biology books and dictionaries to change definitions of words, but, I am going to just assume that the pharmacies and information sheets given by the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies are telling the truth. Why would they claim to put aborted embryos in their shots if they did not? That would be a counter productive lie on their behalf. I am not going to a debate board because I am not interested in debating the possibility of some huge conspiracy, done by, who? Where no one benefits from the conspiracy. But I am suspecting you just did not know what those words meant, or you never bothered to read the ingredients, but you are willing to argue to the death about what is in them, even though you won't even call your local pharmacy and doctor and ask for an information sheet (available for all drugs in the USA).

Here is directly from the manufacturer website http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/v/varivax/varivax_pi.pdf




Edited 8/3/2010 12:59 pm ET by ribrit

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