Divorce?

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-23-2003
Divorce?
11
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 7:04pm
I have a friend that is married with 2 children. Her h and her seem to get along great. She is very religious and had her first child out of wedlock. They married (he had been previously married in the church, divorced because his x cheated on him during the marriage). Latetly she has been greatly bothered by the fact they can't marry in a religious catholic ceremony and has told me maybe the marriage was a big mistake as she is having a hard time "feeling right with God" and feeling "bonded to her h". I am not catholic so I only know little bits and pieces of what she tells me about how the religion works. I have asked her if there is anything else in the marriage making her feel this way and she has told me she dearly loves her h and children and that they are perfect but she feels that something is missing with her h because the committment to God isn't there and they weren't blessed by God. She doesn't attend church out of shame for their marriage and wants her children to be catholic but doesn't want them to feel a part of a marriage of sin.

I don't know what to say to her because I am not of the same religion but I get the feeling she is seriously thinking of leaving. That would be a shame because they are such a great couple and they really love each other. I don't know where she is coming from and think God even in her religion would feel it is worse to break a marriage of mans up that included children than to be "right with God" and have a divorced family. I really hate to see this get out of hand. Any advice that I can give my friend?

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iVillage Member
Registered: 09-19-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 8:02pm
DH and I married out of the church (most Churches won't marry a woman whose OBVIOUSLY with child @ the time of the wedding), but the option of renewing our vows in the Church has always been open to us. It's something we're planning to do for our 10th anniversary. Our marraige has always been recognized by the Church whenever we've joined a new parish.

We saw our pregnancy as God's seal of approval on our union - He wouldn't have blessed us with a child if it wasn't in His plan for us to be together. Maybe that will help your friend feel "right" with God. IMO being "right" with God is independent of being "right" with the Church since the Church has done some pretty dastardly things in the name of religion.

"I am not a celebrity, I am not a show, I am not unreachable or untouchable.  I am a promise you made to yourself when you were a little girl, and I am coming true." ~ Nike

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 8:52pm
She is correct. That the Marriage is not really a valid Marriage, a legal marriage but not a valid one in the eyes of the Church and God. That does not mean that this can't be resolved. She and Her "husband" need to go and speak with her pastor and get an annulment process started. If the Annulment is granted then they can Marry. If it's not they either need to live a chaste life or separate.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 9:01pm
? Being right with the Catholic Church is being right with Christ. I can't believe that a parish would just accept you as husband and wife when you told them that you were not validly Married? No pastor in his right mind would do that because without a valid Marriage, while living together as Husband and wife, you cannot receive any of the Sacraments. Any pastor allowing you to receive Communion or any Sacrament for that matter places himself in a serious position with his Bishop.
iVillage Member
Registered: 09-19-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 9:21pm
Our marraige ceremony was performed by a non-denominational Christian minister and was pre-approved by the diocese - we'd been thru preCana classes @ our parish church and all we had left to do was the walk down the aisle. God blessed us with a baby before we got to the altar.

I've been told that it's never a problem to have a vow renewal ceremony done in the church if your *donation* and intended *stewardship* are of a suitable level by several individuals within the Church.

"I am not a celebrity, I am not a show, I am not unreachable or untouchable.  I am a promise you made to yourself when you were a little girl, and I am coming true." ~ Nike

 

iVillage Member
Registered: 07-23-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 11:47pm
Can you answer a couple of questions please? Under what circumstances can a person be granted an annulement? In her case her H was a victim of adultry and wasn't the person who initiated his divorce, does that make him eligible? His X moved in the man she was having an affair with before the divorce was initiated. Does the X have to agree to sign the annulement or if she refuses can he get it anyway? How long does it take? Does it need to be initiated in the same church the original religious ceremony took place in? Is the pope the one that grants this or the priest? I know she is a traditional catholic she says (maybe this means roman catholic?) so I know she will only participate in something deemed okay by the traditional church. Lastly, is there any useful weblinks for her? Sorry for all the questions but I think this may really make a difference and help her. I have been searching the net and the religion becomes quite complicated and hard to understand. I appreciate people familar with the religion and it's practices telling me in lay terms. Thanks for your time and consideration!
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-23-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Sun, 01-18-2004 - 11:54pm
Thanks for sharing something so personal, I will let her know this perspective, it might help her. Not only is this a friend but actually my cousins wife. I would really like to be able to step in with some ideas and information and try to help them save their marriage. In fact my cousin has no idea she feels this way and before it gets blown out of proportion I would like her to think of other options than divorce to present him with. I know God is a huge part of her life and she feels bad for not attending church in years. Thanks for the information!
iVillage Member
Registered: 04-05-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 7:43am
Some useful links:

www.catholicanswers.com

www.catholic-pages.com click on link to "Forums" look under "Marriage" the people on this board are VERY orthodox and well versed in marriage issues wrt to the Church. A few a lay marriage ministers in their parishes.

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." - Thomas Jeff

iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 9:16am
There are as you not exceptions to the norms. A Bishop can in certain circumstances grant permission for a wedding to take place outside the norms, of place, witness, form, Etc for serious reason. I do not recomend ignoring Canon Law and them attempting to fix the mess later. Pastors who do that will someday be judged and the amount of money raised will not matter to the one doing the judging.
iVillage Member
Registered: 03-27-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 9:34am
"Can you answer a couple of questions please? Under what circumstances can a person be granted an annulement? In her case her H was a victim of adultry and wasn't the person who initiated his divorce, does that make him eligible?"

In general the answer is no. However it can be a indication that sometings was lacking at the time of the Marriage. An annulment decrees that something necessary for a valid marriage was missing at the time of the Marriage. The most important area looked at is the time just before the Marriage ceremony took place.

"His X moved in the man she was having an affair with before the divorce was initiated. Does the X have to agree to sign the annulement or if she refuses can he get it anyway?"

No, an annulment can move ahead without her but it will create delays.

"How long does it take?"

Each case is different some take months others years.

"Does it need to be initiated in the same church the original religious ceremony took place in?"

In the diocese where the wedding took place or the current diocese of the person initiating the process.

"Is the pope the one that grants this or the priest?"

It is the Marriage Tribunal of the diocese repersenting the Bishop.

"I know she is a traditional catholic she says (maybe this means roman catholic?) so I know she will only participate in something deemed okay by the traditional church. Lastly, is there any useful weblinks for her?"

It is not a simple matter. IT is really akin to civil law. No one in their right mind will try and bring a civil case before a court if they are not a lawyer, even though they may have a right to. The Annulment process is a process that involves Canon Law (Church Law) and the necessary investigations and fact finding.

iVillage Member
Registered: 06-19-2003
In reply to: rebeccababy2
Mon, 01-19-2004 - 11:18pm
First, you pray that the Holy Spirit gives you the answer that fits your situation. I got married in a civil court to a non-catholic when I was barely 18. He divorced me less than a year later. At the time I did not practice my faith and remarried (again in the civil court and a non-catholic). As I grew older, I went back to church. I felt the same way your friend did so I prayed. My non-catholic husband gave me the answer: If you are going to be Catholic, then follow the rules. The Catholic Church is respected world wide because it "sticks to its guns". So, here I am. I am Catholic. I go to Mass and think it is one of the most beautiful things in the world. I do not accept Sacraments although I have read that penance would be allowed. I pray for the conversion of my husband. In the best of all worlds: he would convert, I could get an annulment, we could get our marriage convalidated. Second choice: Annulment and convalidated marriage. Third choice: Follow the rules, continue to build a relationship with Jesus, attend Mass, and don't accept Sacraments. It is hard, but I would definately not advocate divorce. If the children thought the parents got divorced because of religion, what would they think about religion when they grew up?

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