High sperm dna fragmentation questions

iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
High sperm dna fragmentation questions
6
Tue, 08-17-2010 - 1:14am

Hi


My Dh & I were looking to start ivf next month. We had all the bw done and DH had a special SA done last week. He had a Vas reversal in March 2009 with 2 normal SA since then, but this special test has found this he has antisperm antibodies present and a very high dna sperm fragmentation, motility 14%.


I was expecting the antibodies because that is common in vas reversals, but this is helped through sperm washing etc. But the dna fragmentation is devastating :( I think if we went and head and did ICSI/IVF now our chances of a successful pregnancy are 1 %. There are very high miscarriage rates with dna fragmentation which explains my m/c last year and 2 chemicals this year.


We are both just lost & completely devastated :( Has anyone had any experience with this? I cant find a single success story online, most couples eventually move on to donor sperm after multiple failed ivf/icsi cycles. I just dont think that is for us :(


The fertility clinic is sending out a letter for a plan of action which involves more tests, vitamins etc.. I dont see the point in spending thousands of dollars more to get false hope, maybe this is the end of the ttc road for us.


Sarah

Photobucket
Sarah 33 Brad 36

 

trying for one of our own!

#4 for me, #3 for DH

 

TTC 12 ++ months

 - March 2009 - Vas Reversal, SA normal

 - Dec 2009 BFP but m/c @ 5.5 weeks

 - July 2010 Clomid 50mg Days 5-9 BFN

 - August 2010 CLomid 50mg Days 3-7

 - September 2010 - hoping to try our first ivf cycle

 

 
Photobucket

 
Sarah 33 Brad 36

 

trying for one of our o
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2007
Wed, 08-25-2010 - 11:26am

Hi Sarah,


Pre-vitamins, DH's DNA frag was 31% (in the very poor category). Post-vitamins (after 6 weeks of them), his DNA frag was 16%, which is very close to 'normal'. GL to you!!

~Kate


6-time IVF Survivor


2 m/c's


BFP on 12/30/09


Saw HB on 1/13/10, 6w2d, 122bpm


Saw HB again on 1/20/10, 7w2d, 158bpm


Saw HB again on 1/27/10, 8w2d, 172bpm


PLEASE GOD!!!!!!!!


~Kate


6-time IVF Survivor


2 m/c's


iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
Wed, 08-25-2010 - 6:29am

Kate - do you know how high your DH dna frag was? my Dh is currently 37%, so i was just wondering.


Its so wonderful to hear your success story, congrats and GL on your upcoming arrival!!


Our RE wants to go ahead with ICSI/IVF but has not mentioned what % chance we have now of achieving a successful PG. Whilst that gives us hope that he wants to proceed, I don't want to spend thousands of $$ for 1-5% chance.


We are still in limbo land for now :(


Sarah 33 Brad 36

 

trying for one of our o
iVillage Member
Registered: 07-25-2007
Sat, 08-21-2010 - 11:40am

I have a success story. After 2 mc's we went to a special doctor located in Chicago, who diagnosed my hubby w/ high DNA fragmentation. He got varicocele surgery (to preserve, not help) and went on special vitamins called Male Fertility MFS by Coast Reproductive (just google coast reproductive). Our doctor, a TRUE expert in the field of DNA frag, said there was a 70% chance that the DNA frag improved. He went from 'poor dna' to 'normal' in only 6 weeks after taking the vitamins.
Anyhow, I'm now pg and due in 2 weeks w/ a boy.


GL to you and don't give up hope! We had to do IVF 6 (not a typo!) times before we got our sticky baby.

~Kate


6-time IVF Survivor


2 m/c's


BFP on 12/30/09


Saw HB on 1/13/10, 6w2d, 122bpm


Saw HB again on 1/20/10, 7w2d, 158bpm


Saw HB again on 1/27/10, 8w2d, 172bpm


PLEASE GOD!!!!!!!!


~Kate


6-time IVF Survivor


2 m/c's


iVillage Member
Registered: 09-05-2003
Thu, 08-19-2010 - 8:57pm

Thank you both so much for your replies, it really has given me some sense of hope now, especially that new research.


Dh has to go in on Monday and do the SCSA again, then ejaculate every day for a week and go in following monday and do the SCSA. The plan is that they are thinking the less time the sperm spend in there, the less dna damage. We will see i guess.


We are also waiting to hear back from our RE on his opinion of the results. We have emailed and asked him if it is still possible to go ahead with ICSI/IVF and PGD screening using testicular aspiration.


GL to both of you on your IVF journeys! I just hope we get the chance to try it too.


Sarah

Photobucket
Sarah 33 Brad 36

Sarah 33 Brad 36

 

trying for one of our o
iVillage Member
Registered: 11-14-2008
Wed, 08-18-2010 - 10:36pm


I unfortunately don't have a success story with MFI for you yet. My DH has severly low count and we have had 2 failed IVF's but many others with MFI have been sucessful on the even the first try. Find the recents BFP's post, lots of MFI success stories on that. The 2nd IVF we did a split cycle with DH and DS. I have 3 frozen blast with DS. We are now awaiting #3 this fall and we will do the split cycle again. It's kind of like an insurance plan,if all else fails with the DHS we will still have the embies from the DS that we can use. You and your DH would have to be okay with DS. It's a very personal issue but it is an option if you don't have the money for multiple IVF's and or don't want to deal with the physical and emotional stress of IVF.

Found this for you, because after I read your post I wondered if we had done that test too. http://www.ivf1.com/sperm-dna-fragmentation/
It basically disputes the fact of you and your DH having an only 1% chance so dont give up Girll !

Clinical significance of the SCSA test

Some of the early clinical data involving SCSA suggested that men with more than 30% of their DNA with fragmentation had extremely poor pregnancy rates (1% or less) even with aggressive techniques such as in vitro fertilization - IVF.Current data proves that this was not true! In 2004, several research abstracts were presented at the annual meeting of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine - ASRM. The results of these studies were quite different than the original studies.

In Colorado, 128 couples going through an IVF cycle had sperm frozen for SCSA. The pregnancy rate in patients with a SCSA showing less than 30% fragmentation (the normal group) was 62%. The pregnancy rate in patients with an SCSA greater than 30% (the abnormal group) was 81%. In the abnormal group, the average SCSA result was a fragmentation index of 40%.

Another study performed in North Carolina and since published in the journal Fertility and Sterility involved 100 couples undergoing IVF. SCSA testing was performed on the same semen specimen that was used for fertilization of the eggs. Nine of nineteen couples achieved clinical pregnancy when the DFI (DNA fragmentation index) was greater than 27 %.

The best conclusions that can be made today about an abnormal SCSA test are:
All men, whether fertile or infertile, have some sperm with fragmented DNA
Men with a normal semen analysis can have an abnormal SCSA.
A SCSA test result is very consistent over time. The SCSA is more consistent than a semen analysis. Some things can cause an abnormal test, however, such as a high fever or certain medications. Certain steps in preparing to do the test can affect the results of the SCSA.
The best evidence to dates suggests that men with an abnormally high percentage of sperm with DNA fragmentation, have a pregnancy rate similar to men with a normal percentage of sperm DNA fragmentation when using techniques such as IVF.
Some final things to know

Currently, it does not seem that the SCSA test will help predict those couples who are less likely to get pregnant with IVF. It is also unclear who should have the SCSA test and who does not need it. Even if we believe that the test is correctly identifying couples with a lower chance for achieving pregnancy, there are no clinical trials that have ever looked at possible treatments.

I have been placing my patients on high doses of antioxidants but the results have been mixed. Some men showed no improvement but still achieved a pregnancy. The bottom line is much still needs to learned about this test and what it means. Incidentally, most insurance companies still consider this test to be experimental and therefore refuse to cover it.

IVF#1 March 2010 GonalF, Cetrotide, Menopur.
23 follicles 19 eggs 13 mature 7 fertilized 2 blasts none to freeze. No Pregnancy.
IVF#2 July 2010 Lupron Gonal F Menopur
IVF#1 March 2010 GonalF, Cetrotide, Menopur.
23 follicles 19 eggs 13 mature 7 fertilized 2 blasts none to freeze. No Pregnancy.
IVF#2 July 2010 Lupron Gonal F Menopur
iVillage Member
Registered: 06-03-2010
Tue, 08-17-2010 - 9:15am

I don't know anything about the DNA fragmentation, but I wonder if that is something that can be dealt with through PGD (genetic testing of embryos before transferring back to uterus)? In our clinic in Atlanta, PGD added $1800 to the cost of IVF, which isn't that much considering how much it could help you have a successful pregnancy possibly. Also, I'm in a similar situation to you- I have 2 children, and my dh has 1, and we're desperately trying to conceive 1 together- I know that probably makes the desire to use your dh's sperm that much more significant to you. I heard of someone who had the dh's sperm mixed with donor sperm (selected for his nearly identical appearance and characteristics to the dh) and only the embryologist knew for sure whose dna resulted in the pregnancy- that sounded kinda neat to me. That would only work for some people, I know, but maybe it's an option? Besides, one sperm is just one cell... I am adopted, and after tracking down and meeting my bio-parents and bio-siblings, I can assure you that "nurture" has a LOT more to do with personality than "nature," lol! I have NOTHING in common with my bio-family, other than a few physical characteristics.... And I was adopted as a TODDLER, not a newborn, let alone inutero!

I say all this to say "DON'T GIVE UP!" It's not the end of the road!

Hugs,

Leah (33, DH- 33)
03/08- BFP w/ NO HELP, but m/c at 10 wks
3 IUIs- BFN
05/10- BFP w/ NO HELP, but chem preg at 4 wks
1st IVF in Aug. 2010- Ganirelex protocol
08/11- ER, 40 eggs! 29 mature, 26 fertilized!
Froze 14, letting 12 go to blast stage... Fingers crossed!
Leah (33, DH- 33)
03/08- BFP w/ NO HELP, but m/c at 10 wks
3 IUIs- BFN
05/10- BFP w/ NO HELP, but chem preg at 4 wks
1st IVF in Aug. 2010- Ganirelex protocol
08/11- ER, 40 eggs! 29 mature, 26 fertilized!
Froze 14, 7 made it to blast, 2 t