SOY OR VITEX 10 CYCLE
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| Wed, 02-04-2009 - 9:54am |
LADIES PLEASE HELP IT WILL BE THE 10th MONTH THIS MONTH AND IF I DIDNT HAVE A MC IN JULY I WOULD HAVE BEEN GIVING BIRTH AROUND THIS MONTH SO ITS VERY HARD AND SAD FOR ME RIGHT NOW.
WELL HERE IS MY QUESTION I DONT KNOW IF I SHOULD TRY SOY FROM CD3-7 OR VITEX THE WHOLE CYCLE . SEE I DO HAVE REGULAR CYCLES OF 28 DAYS AND IM NOT SURE IF VITEX WILL HELP OR HURT ME , I THINK ITS THE EGGS THAT ARENT GROWING TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL OR JUST NOT ENOUGH FOLICS . SO ANYONE PLEASE IF YOU HAVE KNOLAGE OF THESE HERBS AND OR YOUR OWN EXPIERENCE WITH THEM GOOD OR BAD PLEASE SHARE YOUR INSIGHT WITH ME.. TODAY IS CD1 SO IF I DO GO WITH SO I DONT WANT TO MISS MY CHANCE. OH AND I FORGOT TO MENTION LAST CYCLE I TRIED RED CLOVER BUT I TOOK IT ON THE WRONG DAYS I STARTED CD1 AND WENT ALL THE WAY TO CD9 ,THE OUT COME WAS I THINK A VERY LATE O OR A OVULATION CYCLE. PLEASE EXCUSE MY TYPOS .AT WORK AND AM TRYING TO SNEEK A POST

Hi Daisy,
First, I understand how difficult this month will be for you after a m/c. P & PT.
I think the first thing you want to determine is what are you trying to supplement in your cycle. You say that you have a regular 28 day cycle (which is good!), but does that mean that you O on about the 14th day of your cycle? I saw from another post that you might not be certain whether you are O'ing. If this is the case, I would definitely recommend charting your BBT (basal body temp.) as this will give you a clearer picture of when and if you O.
The reason I say this is that Vitex and Soy Isoflavones act differently. From my understanding, Vitex increases progesterone in the body by increasing LH and somewhat inhibiting FSH. It also helps to reduce prolactin levels. Vitex is supposed to help with luteal defect (when your LP, after ovulation, is too short to allow for proper implantation) and becomes more effective if it is taken for 3+ months. Of course, not all women respond the same, and some report that Vitex threw their regular cycle off. I took it as part of a blend of herbs in FertilAid. That month I had an extended cycle and did not O at all! Needless to say, I have not taken it since (although Vitex may not have been the culprit.)
Soy isoflavones are a phyto-estrogen (plant-based). They have a similar structure to estrogen but are much less potent, so they trick the body into producing more estrogen. This increases levels of LH (which stimulates the follicles) and FSH. This is supposed to help you O earlier or stronger depending on when it is taken. I took it last month CD 3-7, and it did move my O date forward by 2 days to CD17. Didn't take it this cycle as we were out of town, but I may try it again next cycle.
So after all of that, if you think that the problem is O or your estrogen levels than soy isoflavones(taken like Clomid at the beginning of cycle 120-150 mg). If it seems the problem is your LP or progestrone than Vitex (175 mg taken entire cycle, discontinue once pregnant.) These are just general recommendations, and I would suggest you read more before you decide. I found lots of info at babyhopes.com, fertility-challenged.blogspot, and soulcysters.net. Good luck!
Hi again,
Ooops. I proofread my message after posting and realized that I reversed FSH (which stimulates the follies) and LH (which triggers the release) in my explanation of soy. You probably got what I meant but just wanted to clarify. :)
BABLY,
FIRST THANK YOU FOR SUCH DETALIED INFORMATION . BUT I HAVE TO BOTHER YOU ONE MORE TIME. OK I DO CHART AND ALWAYS GET A CLEAR THERMAL SHIFT IM TALKING 97.44 TO JUMP 98.77 AND UP
Hi Daisy,
Good to hear that you are charting and sounds like you are definitely O'ing. If you typically O on CD 15-16, then you should have a luteal phase which is 13 days (or possibly 12). This is well within the normal range and should not indicate a luteal defect (unless you have frequent spotting before your period).
If you are concerned about the egg's quality than taking the soy isoflavones at the beginning of your cycle may be your best option. It is supposed to increase the levels of the hormones that help the egg to mature and then be released. Since you already O mid-cycle, I would not take it too early in your cycle (no earlier than CD3 and maybe even CD5). I read somewhere that taking it later, like CD5-CD9, makes ovulation "stronger". I guess that means better egg quality... not sure.
I have heard that Vitex can act as an overall regulator... I am just not sure how. The ladies I have met on this board were taking it for a luteal defect and to increase progesterone after O. It seems to work quite well for that! I also met a few women (like myself) who had delayed O while taking it. (Well, mine did not come at all.)
I have no experience with Red Clover, so I can't really comment on your last cycle. I do understand your frustration with temp's all over and feeling crabby though! I think Vitex is supposed to help PMS (I remember reading that somewhere). Perhaps you could speak with a local herbalist?
I really do understand how you are feeling and wanting to do everything you can to get a BFP. At least the two options you are considering are natural ways to enhance fertility. Sorry that I can't be of more help.
Best wishes, baby LB
THANK YOU
I APPREACIEAT ALL YOUR EFFORT TRYING TO HELP AND I ALSO WILL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ABOUT WAITING TILL CD5 VERS CD3 MABY THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE EGGS JUST NEED A LITTLE HELP , IM JUST WORRIED THAT IF ALL ELS FAILS WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE ME WITH INSURANCE THAT RARELY COVERS FERTILITY TESTING UNLESS THERE IS SOME EXISTING DISSFUNCTION THAT NEEDS TREETMENT . I DONT KNOW IF YOU READ MY OTHER POST ABOUT NOT O'ING AND GETTING AF ,WELL IM ALSO CONCEREND THAT MABY EVERYTHING IS OK MY EGGS STRONG DH SPERM IS FINE MY HORMONE LEVELS ARE GOOD AND THERE COULD BE BLOCKAGE OR A COLLAPSED TUBE. WHEN I MENTIONED MY CONCERN TO MY OB THAT I WAS CONCERNED THAT THERE COULD HAVE BEEN SOME DAMMAGE DONE FROM THE DNC THAT I HAD AFTER THE MC IN JULY. HE HAD SAID THAT THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW FOR SURE WOULD BE HSG TEST AND ONLY AFTER A YEAR WOULD HE CONSIDER IT SIMPLY BECAUSE I HAVE TWO CHILDREN AND THEN THE PG THAT FAILLED. IN A WAY IT MAKES SENCE BUT IT ALSO DOESNT BECAUSE I WAS FINE UP UNTILL THE MC AND DNC , I THINK HE IS JUST INSENSITIVE AND DEALS WITH SO MANY WOMAN TTC'ING THAT WE ARE A NUCENCE TO THEM .NOT ALL OBS OFCOURS JUST MINE.
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU